Hollows and rounds

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I'm looking for some hollows and rounds, to use, I''m not bothered about collector value, but I do want to do good work with them. I am interested in the larger sizes, as I would be shaping rather than making mouldings, to start with, anyway.

I have made very large rounds, with Hock irons as per Krenov, and would like hollows to match, but the irons are not available. I suppose I could grind my own, but have not the time presently.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to good vintage ones? There are some King of Hull on ebay at the minute, that look in good condition. The 14 and 18 sizes appeal. Are these a good usable make? I don't mind paying a reasonable price, I'm not waiting forever to find a bargain, I want to get working!

Mike.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

There must have been literally hundreds of plane makers over the years, most of whom made perfectly adequate products. Whether they are still adequate rather depends on how their former owners treated them, far more than on their original quality.

There are a couple of ways you could go. One would be to contact the better secondhand dealers, and ask them to provide pairs of planes in first class user condition. Most of the dealers have far more stock than they put on their websites, so that would certainly furnish you with all the H/Rs you'll ever need - there's no shortage of good secondhand ones. Another, perhaps better, option would be to order a few pairs from Philly. You'll get planes that work 'out of the box' - no need to tune wedges, reprofile irons or straighten stocks.

The cheap way is to buy single planes, and if you don't NEED matched profiles, you could get an awful lot of planes for not very much. Orphan hollow and rounds seem to fetch about £3 to £5 each on Ebay, and postage isn't crippling because they aren't that heavy or bulky. Matched pairs are more like £20 to £40 a pair, so you could afford to buy and reject 50% of a lot of singles.

By the way, reprofiling irons (they need to match the sole profile very closely) is a job made easier by a couple of diamond files, or a grinding wheel with a curved profile dressed on it. Once done, careful sharpening (equal amounts off the whole cutting edge, no matter where the wear is) will keep them in good order.

Edit to add - the best quality planes were made from quartered timber (usually riven). Look for stocks with the grain exactly parallel to the sides of the stock. Some second quality planes ignored this to some extent, so seasonal movement may result in odd distortions; though after a century or more of settling, most moulding planes are pretty stable nowadays, unless habitually subjected to extreme changes of temperature and humidity, so I personally wouldn't get too hung up about it.

 

[AndyT]

Go for it!
Many of the hollows and rounds on my shelves have been bought on spec in mixed lots and in my experience the bigger sizes have almost all been in good conditions. I think there are two causes - for much work the smaller sizes are more useful and the bigger ones wear more slowly as they have bigger working surfaces.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies, most useful.

The Philly hollows and rounds look gorgeous, but only come in 6's and 12's. I think 12 would be as small as I would go, and once owned..... Is there such a thing as an unrequited slope?

I suppose the best thing to do is try, but is it easy to reshape a dry grinding wheel to convex with a diamond dresser? I might give it a go tomorrow, but if I should fail, where can these be bought, can't recall seeing one in the usual tool catalogues. If one would be handy to re profile hollow irons, then I suppose it might be worth grinding a block plane iron to make a match for the rounds I made.

I wonder if Philly could be persuaded to make some larger sizes, I'd better start saving!

Mike.

 

[AndyT]

The trad way to shape irons was to work them in the soft state using ordinary files and temper the steel afterwards. You could do the same if you bought the right steel. Irons were individually matched to the bodies.
If you buy an old one and need to make minor adjustments diamond files are good as CC says. Coarse abrasive paper round a dowel is also good.

 

[bugbear]

As a "data point", Tony Murland offers harlequin sets, both single and double:

http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/toolbox.p ... n%20planes

BugBear

 

[custard]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies, most useful.

The Philly hollows and rounds look gorgeous, but only come in 6's and 12's. I think 12 would be as small as I would go, and once owned..... Is there such a thing as an unrequited slope?

I suppose the best thing to do is try, but is it easy to reshape a dry grinding wheel to convex with a diamond dresser? I might give it a go tomorrow, but if I should fail, where can these be bought, can't recall seeing one in the usual tool catalogues. If one would be handy to re profile hollow irons, then I suppose it might be worth grinding a block plane iron to make a match for the rounds I made.

I wonder if Philly could be persuaded to make some larger sizes, I'd better start saving!

Mike.

For years I had a ragbag of H&R's that I'd picked up one at a time, none matched and the numbering system was all over the place. A couple of years ago I bit the bullet and got a half set of Philly H&R's with a couple of extra sizes that I'd found useful in the past, plus a pair of half rounds and snipes bills. I think these are the planes he uses on his web site. Personally I think the half rounds and snipes bills are crucial, but maybe that's just the way I work or the mouldings I make. The larger sizes though seem more fitted to architectural work, the only times I've used them have been for big picture/mirror frames. For furniture applications you could happily get by with just a couple from the mid to lower half of the range. Anyhow, I've nothing but good things to say about Phil and his products.

It's interesting you've posted this now, I'm just finishing a large table and needed a bead on the bottom of the aprons. The bead had to match some existing furniture and it was a size that I didn't have as a dedicated moulding plane, but I did have that size in a combination plane set so used that. It brought home just how superior a dedicated moulding plane really is! The combination plane finally did the job, but it took a lot of cleaning up with sandpaper, the quirk is too fat, and there were a few heart stopping moments where I thought I'd ruined the apron due to tear out. Upon reflection I should have formed the bead with a snipes bill and H&R's.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hello,

Thanks for the replies, most useful.

The Philly hollows and rounds look gorgeous, but only come in 6's and 12's. I think 12 would be as small as I would go, and once owned..... Is there such a thing as an unrequited slope?

I suppose the best thing to do is try, but is it easy to reshape a dry grinding wheel to convex with a diamond dresser? I might give it a go tomorrow, but if I should fail, where can these be bought, can't recall seeing one in the usual tool catalogues. If one would be handy to re profile hollow irons, then I suppose it might be worth grinding a block plane iron to make a match for the rounds I made.

I wonder if Philly could be persuaded to make some larger sizes, I'd better start saving!

Mike.

Philly does make the other sizes of H&R to order, and as Custard says above, he does snipe bills and side rounds as well, should anybody's activities develop into sticking mouldings. Another good point about Philly's planes is that the bedding angle he uses as standard is 55 degrees, which is closer to a 'cabinet' pitch than most older moulding planes, which tend to bed at about 47.5 degrees or so to suit joinery work in softwoods.

If anybody fancies having a go at sticking mouldings, obtaining a copy of Matt Bickford's book 'Mouldings in Practice' would be a very good plan. It's the only book I know on this subject, and most of the technique textbooks tend to rather gloss over the use of moulding planes. Classic Hand Tools and (I think) Axi have stocks. Not a cheap book, but worth it.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The idea of using dedicated moulding planes appeals to me. In fact when I was younger, my dad had a few corner bead planes and ogees, which I used to use. It was enjoyable to make moulding in this way. The planes got lost somewhere. I think I still have one round, maybe a 12, somewhere. Snipe bills also fascinate me, though iv'e never used them. The problem is, the sort of things I make tend to have few of these 'old fashioned' details. Something compels me to want to use the planes, but I cannot thing when they would have a practical use for me.

The reason I want larger hollows and rounds is primarily for shaping, rather than moulding. In a way something of the scale of architectural mouldings, or linen folds. Perhaps I should make my own in more of the Krenovian style wooden planes I have made. The round radiused irons are available, though I have re ground these for my needs. The hollows are not available. I was thinking of re grinding block plane blades, or scrub plane irons to suit what I want. The Krenov blades have cap irons, so it might be fun to try and make these too. I think I still like the idea of trad hollows and rounds in the larger sizes, though. Perhaps where these leave off, radius wise, the Krenov style ones will take over and I will have the best of both worlds.

Mike.

 

[toolsntat]

Hello Mike, these 2 chaps on the ebay get a huge amount of stuff, send them a message and they will look out for you :wink: 8)

barnes1659

Cheers
Andy

 

[custard]

The reason I want larger hollows and rounds is primarily for shaping, rather than moulding.

Mike, in one of David Charlesworth's books there's a chapter about repurposing a wooden jack plane as a shaping plane, much as you describe.

 

[woodbrains]

Mike, in one of David Charlesworth's books there's a chapter about repurposing a wooden jack plane as a shaping plane, much as you describe.

Thanks, I will have to read one of DC's books.

Yes I could see that, but might be a bit too big. Large radii but not such a large plane is the thing I'm after. Old woodies with irreparable bodies would be a good source of double irons, though. I can make a good plane body in a few hours over 2 days, so might be just as well making from scratch, than repurposing an old and possibly cumbersome jack.

Have just bought a pair of no. 18 hollow and round, the round having a slightly damaged sole, but otherwise very good cond. the damage as far as I can tell from the photo would not cause any operational problems, so not a biggie.when thy arrive I will let you know what they are really like. That said, I have a bit of goncalo alves, which would make a good wear resistant re-sole, so I might do that eventually. I know this might make the woodie worshipers here cringe, but as far as I am concerned, history is not something that just stopped, it will add to its future history, when the next owners get the thing. It is no worse than repurposing jacklanes, I suppose.

Mike.