help with OPJ style gates

[furyjohn]

Hi all,

I'm attempting to make some gates approx 6ft tall for the side of the house in the style of OPJ's inspired recent posting.

The gates themselves I *think* will be straightforward, however, the complication I have is the dividing fence between the 2 houses and how to deal with it.
I really don't want to have to dig out the post and replace for a larger one so, as i see it, i have a few options:-

i) each gate to close onto the 1.5" face of the concrete post. The post to have battens/holes for the bolt

pros :
- easy

cons :
- drilling the post near the egde is a bad idea.
- a gap between gates above post unless gates are shaped to meet in the centre above the post but i don't think this
would work with a ledge+brace frame

- even if shaping the gates to fit around the post, the height of the fence post (approx 30") would mean that the centre ledge
would have to be below the centre line causing the gate to easily twist if pushed

ii) bolt a timber post to the face of the fence post and have the gates shut against this.

pros :
- supports the full height of the gate
- allows drilling straight through the centre of the fence post to allow thro-bolts to hold the timber post
- covers the gap between the gates.
- easy fixing of locks/bolts

cons :
- looks naff
- may tip the fence post over time?



iii) use the timber post, as described and also support this at the top with a piece between the wall plates and adjust the gate design to allow
them to meet in the centre above the fence post.

pros :
- the strongest/most secure of the options

cons :
- looks really naff
- over complicated?


dimensions are as follows:
post-right-edge to right wall 27"
post-left-edge to left wall 36"
post-height 34"
post is 5" wide

I plan to use 4x2 (100x94) for the wall plates and frame, and 4x3/4 (100x19) for the t&g.

The gates are to be mounted on the 3rd fence post from the bottom of the picture (1st fence post is only just visible)

Any and all replies are appreciated as i'm not sure how to progress.

FuryJohn

 

[MickCheese]

How is the neighbours gate fixed?

Why not have your gate adjacent to the neighbours gate?

Why a 6 foot gate which if I understand you correctly is at the front and not offering any added security as 'Billy the Burglar' could just hop over the fence into your side way.

Mick

 

[furyjohn]

ah, sorry, i should have been clearer. The neighbours gate is very flimsy indeed and we can't put ours adjacent to it as our back door is there !

The plan is to make 2 gates nearer the front and the neighbour can decommision his gate

furyJohn

 

[9fingers]

So you are proposing a pair of gates, one for you and one for the neighbour? Have I got it right?

I would make the frames to fit the gap between wall and post and add on extra pieces to fill the gap above the post.
Bolts/catches to secure into the top of the concrete post.

Any gate in this location will not offer any useful security as jack the lad will jump up onto the fence and gate vault over the remaining 3 foot or so of the gates.

Bob

 

[furyjohn]

hi 9fingers, yes, one gate for each.

I had thought about the vaulting on the fence scenario which i must admit is a concern, but by putting gates there it's made it more difficult for anyone to get through to the back of the house...and out again...leaving it open is not an option.

At a push i could replace the fence panel nearest the gate with a trellis-type pannel that would collapse under the load of a person but at the minute it's a secondary concern as whichever method of gate i use i'll still have the same issue.

would you not envisage drilling into the top of the concrete post being a problem ?
would it not crumble/crack away?

furyjohn

 

[9fingers]

I tend to agree abut the risk of drilling into the post. I would be looking to make some sort of metal plate that could possibly be fixed in the grooves holding the existing panels. If you were unable to do this yourself, maybe a local metal worker could make this for you.
The plate could be both the catch for a Suffolk latch on each gate as well as having two holes for barrel bolts.

I'm a bit too far away from you otherwise I could weld something up for you.

Bob

 

[furyjohn]

9fingers, cracking idea - i guess i probably could get a "metal collar" made for the post. Given that the post is so low compared to the height of the gate, would this not make the gate a bit flimsy at the top ? i.e. twist easily with a bit of a push? s'pose if it was, it would make it harder to climb over !

 

[9fingers]

That is why I suggested that the frame width be the same as the wall to post width all the way up. In that way the gate would be more rigid.

If you make the middle rail just about the top of the post, this will take the load of the latch and bolt.

Yes a collar round the post but also a pair of strips going down in the grooves on the post would add rigidity and spread the load down the post . Once locked by the gate, the metalwork would be impossible to lift off the post.

Bob

 

[furyjohn]

thanks 9fingers, so i guess i'll have to make a fully framed gate - not sure of the terminology but a figure of 8 shape with a diagonal brace.

what are the best joints to use for the frame ?

half-lap ? M+T ? plane old screw/nail - pocket-hole style through the face of the stile into the rails ?

once again, thanks in advance to any and all info

FuryJohn

 

[Benchwayze]

John,

Both you and your neighbour seem to have a security problem with the low fence.
My solution would probably need planning permission, but it's what I should have done here when I was younger. I.e. covering in the side entrance completely. I have only three feet space between my house and next-door. My neighbour wouldn't allow me to fix a wall-plate to his side entrance wall,so it would have meant a proper job, which at the time wasn't affordable. But in my case, to get to the rear of my house means scaling the gate, and wearing heavy, leather gloves; for reasons I can't go into here! 8)

John

 

[furyjohn]

hi Benchwayze,

yes that small fence is a concern. I could remove it or replace with a much weakened one but either way, the presence of the gate will (i hope !) at least make anyone think twice plus it will also make the other houses in the area without gates look like a more appealing prospect. Also, with a security light (yet to be installed) and other deterrents (that i haven't though of yet) will reduce the appeal further.

Leather gloves! understood. like it :lol:

anyone have any ideas on the joints to be used for the frame?

I'm fairly sure that i already know the answer to be M+T but not having done this before and being a semi-novice i'm just looking for confirmation from people who have done this before or who just know.....

thanks all

Furyjohn