Help me choose a first plane?

[Chris152]

I understand a 5 1/2 is a good all-round plane. I went into Axminster and handled a few, their own and the very expensive ones. They seem a bit big but I guess that's because I've never handled one except a 4 or 4 1/2 which is my dad's old broken one. And my research (this forum and elsewhere, including Peter Sefton's DVDs) says 5 1/2 is the way to go, so I think that's what I'll do.

I like the idea of buying a cheap old one and fettling, but as I don't know what I'm doing can see me making it worse rather than better. Give that, and that I'm trying to not spend a penny more than I have to, should I buy this:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ri ... e-ax976870

or this:

https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... plane.html

My understanding is the quangsheng should be almost fine straight out of the box, and the rider may well need some fettling and stuff which I could mess up. There's about £40 difference. Can I expect the quangsheng to be ready to go or is that too much to ask?!

Thanks.

 

[AJB Temple]

Generally the quanhsheng come well finished and well set up from workshop heaven.

You could of course also consider a hand held electric planer. These are very good these days, produce a clean finish, and are highly adjustable. Whilst I have plenty of hand planes, sharp and well set up, quite often I pull out the electric plane and my small Veritas block plane is always readily to hand.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks AJB. Electric planers frighten me a bit! Probably the sound and the fact I've never used one. Maybe I should have a go with one before I buy anything.

Has anyone any thoughts on the Axminster Rider? Do they need much work to make them ok? I can pick one up easily (the store's near here, which makes them attractive) but don't want to have to do much other than sharpen and set the blade.

 

[Mangokid]

Can't help u at all, just wanted to say I'm in a very similar position and so very interested in the feedback on this also...

I Had decided on the quangsheng 5 1/2 as my first handplane, however, as my folks are headed to the US in a few months, I'm considering getting them to bring me back a veritas, which can be had much cheaper in the states...

Had u considered a bevel up plane? I'm still a little confused as to what is best to get first....

 

[G S Haydon]

I tried a Rider. In terms of fit, finish and quality I thought it was poor bearing in mind the price. I have also tried the Quangsheng from Workshop Heaven, in terms of fit, finish and quality I though it was excellent value.

Once you have it you might also consider experimenting with vintage Bailey pattern planes such as Record and Stanley. They are often to be found for low prices and work very well.

 

[sunnybob]

Electric planers are definitely screamers. i only recently acquired one, but its not something I enjoy using. Its so full on you can gouge great lumps off the wood before you realise whats happening. Definitely need to practice on some scrap first.

 

[sunnybob]

Can't help u at all, just wanted to say I'm in a very similar position and so very interested in the feedback on this also...

I Had decided on the quangsheng 5 1/2 as my first handplane, however, as my folks are headed to the US in a few months, I'm considering getting them to bring me back a veritas, which can be had much cheaper in the states...

Had u considered a bevel up plane? I'm still a little confused as to what is best to get first....

if you are bringing back a valuable tool from the states or canada, you will be charged import duty of 20% of the receipt, and possibly another 20% vat.
Unless of course you decide to find out whats behind the green door.

 

[mbartlett99]

Can't help u at all, just wanted to say I'm in a very similar position and so very interested in the feedback on this also...

I Had decided on the quangsheng 5 1/2 as my first handplane, however, as my folks are headed to the US in a few months, I'm considering getting them to bring me back a veritas, which can be had much cheaper in the states...

Had u considered a bevel up plane? I'm still a little confused as to what is best to get first....

if you are bringing back a valuable tool from the states or canada, you will be charged import duty of 20% of the receipt, and possibly another 20% vat.
Unless of course you decide to find out whats behind the green door.

There is a gift allowance firstly and secondly I doubt customs know or care about a few tools.

 

[Ttrees]

£154 for the Quangsheng
Indeed it will be a sound plane, but for that money you would be better getting a Bailey or a Record
and then some sharpening gear, since you said you don't want to spend more than you have to.
the 5 1/2 is the one I would go for or a 5.
I believe the quangsheng has A2 steel compared to regular 01....
No plane will work out of the box like a plane should work,
You will need to hone the edge and this is much easier with 01 steel.
You might get stuck with a good plane, but no means of sharpening it.
For the money .....roughly
You could get a cheap eclipse style honing guide £5ish
A decent 5 or 5 1/2 £40 say, depending how much you want to wait. a thick soled one that is,
I suggest you get diamond plates... forum link
your-cheapest-honing-setup-buying-new-only-t102548.html
or Ultex ones
I say this because you will need a dead flat surface to fettle the back of the iron and also the
underside of the chip breaker/cap iron.
Could do it on a salvaged granite off cut, but its less faff with the diamond hones.
You might need a plate to flatten the sole on, but you should get good results anyway.
Do you go to car boot sales ? cheap stones and planes are a plenty I hear...
I would look for a bench grinder with the change, for establishing a primary bevel on ...
Then onto the stones
Look for a fire door in a skip while your at it
Tom

 

[nabs]

I like the idea of buying a cheap old one and fettling, but as I don't know what I'm doing can see me making it worse rather than better.

don't be put off! it is not difficult, and if you are patient you will be able to get an old plane for so little money that in the (unlikely) event you made it worse, you will not be too gutted. having said that, I think it is a good idea to follow your plan and get a decent one first, as that way you have something to compare to.

 

[Chris152]

I tried a Rider. In terms of fit, finish and quality I thought it was poor bearing in mind the price. I have also tried the Quangsheng from Workshop Heaven, in terms of fit, finish and quality I though it was excellent value.

This is what i'm thinking. I ant to learn how to sort out a plane but it does seem, from what I've read, that with lots of the cheaper planes you sort of get a box if bits that you then have to make work as a plane. And if I'm paying £110 for the box of bits, I might as well be paying way less for a vintage one and making that work. Which probably wouldn't happen anyway as I'd make a mess of it.

The only other plane I'd looked at is this:

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... k-plane-v3

Which also looks good but it's still more money. So I'm thinking quangsheng is the way to go. And I have a couple of bits of wood that need planing so I need to make a decision.

Had u considered a bevel up plane? I'm still a little confused as to what is best to get first....

Well, I'd thought I'd just go for a standard plane (if there's such a thing) and take it from there! I use cameras for a living and in my experience, the thought of fetching something from the States and potential taxes is a bit worrying - I've always bought here in spite of the tempting cost savings. But I really don't know the ins and outs.

So - I'm going quangsheng unless anyone can tell me Woodriver is worth another £30!

Thanks all.

 

[morfa]

A cheap record or stanley no 4 from ebay. It's hard to buy a bad one and they're cheap. Just make sure it's obviously not rust covered. Won't need much work till it'll work well.

 

[Droogs]

I have a few Rider planes and for what they cost, i am very happy with them. Just as happy as I am with my woodies, Records and Stanleys. You have to remember that every tool you will aquire for this wonderful pastime will need some sort of fettling. This is just part of woodworking. you've said that you are trying to keep the costs down, so the first thing to consider is:-
How much is your time worth? Do you earn the cost difference between the 2 planes in the couple of hours it will take you to get either of them to the point you are happy with them. But then again are you doing this as a hobby or as an income earner? If the latter then obviously this cost will be the biggest consideration, if the former then part of doing something as a hobby is to learn all the aspects of the hobby. Tool care etc is part of that hobby and requires a set of skills that are only mastered by doing them.
Secondly :- Will the more expensive tool make me a better craftsman? In your situation NO. Doesn't matter if you go round Brands hatch in a ferrari or a skoda, the times aren't gonna be that different. But at least if you learn in the skoda and wreck it, have to repair it and try again yu wont have to sell the house to do so.

So basically, think about what you want out of woodworking is it to be a tool collector; a craftsman; refurnish the house? whetever, you need to go through that learning curve and then start to apply what you learn. The rider will meet all your needs for the forseable future and serve you well as will the QS. Just remember people like Chippingdale, Roentgen et al, just had some bits of wood with a bit of metal sticking out and made masterpieces but only after going through that learning curve.
HTH

 

[Chris152]

£154 for the Quangsheng
Indeed it will be a sound plane, but for that money you would be better getting a Bailey or a Record
and then some sharpening gear, since you said you don't want to spend more than you have to.
the 5 1/2 is the one I would go for or a 5.
I believe the quangsheng has A2 steel compared to regular 01....
No plane will work out of the box like a plane should work,
You will need to hone the edge and this is much easier with 01 steel.
You might get stuck with a good plane, but no means of sharpening it.
For the money .....roughly
You could get a cheap eclipse style honing guide £5ish
A decent 5 or 5 1/2 £40 say, depending how much you want to wait. a thick soled one that is,
I suggest you get diamond plates... forum link
your-cheapest-honing-setup-buying-new-only-t102548.html
or Ultex ones
I say this because you will need a dead flat surface to fettle the back of the iron and also the
underside of the chip breaker/cap iron.
Could do it on a salvaged granite off cut, but its less faff with the diamond hones.
You might need a plate to flatten the sole on, but you should get good results anyway.
Do you go to car boot sales ? cheap stones and planes are a plenty I hear...
I would look for a bench grinder with the change, for establishing a primary bevel on ...
Then onto the stones
Look for a fire door in a skip while your at it
Tom

Something like this?
https://www.gumtree.com/p/chisels-plane ... 1243728526
It's nearby. From what I can see the market for old planes is pretty buoyant and a lot of people are buying and cleaning them. The thing is, I wouldn't know a good one form a bad one...

 

[Rhyolith]

I would get a second hand Record off eBay (Record bit better than Stanley, I think), my first plane was a record No.4. Normally they only need de-rusting and sharpening, the first of which is easy the second you have to learn to do anyway.

Which size is very much personal preference and job specific. If your finding No.5s too big, just get a No.3 or 4 as anything from No.3 - No.5 would be fine as your primary plane, just choose the one you like the most.

The only thing other than what "feel right" to consider is the length of your work, as a the longer work and the longer the plane should be. If your likely to be doing a lot of work with long pieces (2ft +) that need to be straight then a longer plane will be easier (No.5 +). Note "easier", you can straighten a 6ft oar (or anything) fine with no.4, it would just be easier with a No.6.

Something else to note is that longer planes secondhand are more of a risk (least in my experience), so if your getting something bigger than a no.5 maybe consider new expensive ones.

 

[Rhyolith]

£154 for the Quangsheng
Indeed it will be a sound plane, but for that money you would be better getting a Bailey or a Record
and then some sharpening gear, since you said you don't want to spend more than you have to.
the 5 1/2 is the one I would go for or a 5.
I believe the quangsheng has A2 steel compared to regular 01....
No plane will work out of the box like a plane should work,
You will need to hone the edge and this is much easier with 01 steel.
You might get stuck with a good plane, but no means of sharpening it.
For the money .....roughly
You could get a cheap eclipse style honing guide £5ish
A decent 5 or 5 1/2 £40 say, depending how much you want to wait. a thick soled one that is,
I suggest you get diamond plates... forum link
your-cheapest-honing-setup-buying-new-only-t102548.html
or Ultex ones
I say this because you will need a dead flat surface to fettle the back of the iron and also the
underside of the chip breaker/cap iron.
Could do it on a salvaged granite off cut, but its less faff with the diamond hones.
You might need a plate to flatten the sole on, but you should get good results anyway.
Do you go to car boot sales ? cheap stones and planes are a plenty I hear...
I would look for a bench grinder with the change, for establishing a primary bevel on ...
Then onto the stones
Look for a fire door in a skip while your at it
Tom

Something like this?
https://www.gumtree.com/p/chisels-plane ... 1243728526
It's nearby. From what I can see the market for old planes is pretty buoyant and a lot of people are buying and cleaning them. The thing is, I wouldn't know a good one form a bad one...

Thats too expensive I think.

Edit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/record-no4-pl ... Sw~FJZNtuD thats more the sort of price.

 

[worn thumbs]

I'll add my vote for a Stanley or Record No4 used from ebay or a car boot.I really don't understand the enthusiasm for 4 1/2's or 5 1/2's as I have yet to see anybody who can take more than about three full width shavings before running out of steam.A cheap 4 or 5 will give you a chance to learn a lot and many of the things you need to know can be found on this site.Ignore suggestions to change anything until you have a few years experience with a standard plane as the world is full of people trying to sell what they believe to be an improvement.They are supplemented by those who bought such toys and add-ons and who therefore become online experts propounding their knowledge.There is a very good way to filter the wheat from the chaff on this site-ask yourself "what would Jacob do?".

 

[Chris152]

are you doing this as a hobby or as an income earner? If the latter then obviously this cost will be the biggest consideration, if the former then part of doing something as a hobby is to learn all the aspects of the hobby. Tool care etc is part of that hobby and requires a set of skills that are only mastered by doing them.

I know, I'm aware of this and for sure you're right. I did try to restore my dad's old Record 4 of 4 1/2 but can't seem to sort it - one of the shoulder bits of the base is broken right off, and the brass adjuster seems to have so much play in it that when I try to increase or decrease the blade, I never quite feel in control of it. If that makes any sense. So I think to get one that is as sorted as I can get would be good as a start, and work on smaller adjustments rather than trying to overhaul a plane from scratch.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I t pays to watch for collection only sales to see if there are any near you. A Stanley 4 1/2 iirc and a lovely little Record stay set No.3 went for about £30. When I bought my lathe one of the reasons was it was in Torpoint and the seller would deliver anywhere in Devon or Cornwall for £20 - slightly different, but one of the advantages of finding something local.

Adjust your iron so that it is just too far out, then turn it back a little. Advance it very gently so that you've always got it right on the outward turn. There's no slack then.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You'll always have differences of opinion on sizes. The first plane I bough and the most used fifty years later is my Record No.5 1/2 - I had that, a No.6, a No.7 and a No.8 long before I owned a No4 and even longer before a No.5 - which many people start with, or even use exclusively.