Hello! (again) and a question

[Bremner]

Hello again, I registered last May, was on the forum daily until wedding planning (and working my nuts off to pay for the bugger) took up all my time, now it's all planned to a tee and paid for (mostly :roll: ) so now I can finally log a bit of workshop time.

Which leads me to a question, I plan on making a fancy box for my future wife's wedding dress as a present, you can buy cardboard ones but they cost up to and over £50!!!!! I want to make it a bit special with dovetails and maybe some inlay work, before now I've only ever made things from MDF or softwoods and would love to make it from hardwood. There aren't many places near me (that I know of) that stock hardwoods and the cheapest I've found is from a supplier in Wigan, The plan is to make the sides from white oak and the bottom and lid from white oak veneered MDF with solid oak edging (please see sketch up picture below) I was wondering if the prices from the supplier are fair I'll post them below if you could let me know what you think and post a reply it would be much appreciated or if you could recommend anther supplier in the north west that would be great.

12mm White Oak Veneered MDF 8'x4' sheet £41.83 inc VAT
6" x 1" PAR American White Oak £9.20 inc VAT per linear metre
4" x 1" PAR American White Oak £6.27 inc VAT per linear metre

Cheers, brem

 

[Chems]

Perhaps the veneered boards is a little more expensive than I'd expect for 12mm stuff I think I paid about £50 last year per sheet of oak veneered 18mm stuff.

Have a check against SL Hardwoods who will ship nationwide.

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/ParBoardsTimber.aspx?ID=35

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/SheetMater ... aspx?ID=46

For my 2 pennies worth, I wouldn't bother with a veneered lid, a solid lid would be much nicer especially seen as your going to have crossed grain pattern on the ends. You're best bet is to post up the dimensions of that box and see if a nice forum member would plane up the stock for you.

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Brem,

Congrats of course, and welcome.

Have a look at second-hand shops, to find an old sideboard or chest of drawers (The 1930s-40s styles.) The drawers are usually made of solid oak, quite often quarter-sawn; and the rest from good, oak-faced birch ply. With enough drawer fronts, you'd have plenty of stock.
Just a thought.

 

[marcros]

why not veneer a piece of mdf yourself- saves buying a full sheet for a box lid and base. ebay is good for veneer offcuts/small pieces, or put a wanted ad on here.

edit: I didnt see that the box was for dress storage and therefore quite large

 

[devonwoody]

That stock list above is going to weigh a bit!

Will you have the energy. :wink:

 

[Harbo]

Am I correct in thinking the box is for storage after the event?
If so, my advice would be to sell the dress on EBay and make a jewellery box.
As a father of two daughters, I speak from experience - still storing 3 dresses!

Rod

 

[marcros]

Another thought- you may want to incorporate some cedar into your plan- traditionally used for its moth repelling qualities.

 

[deserter]

+1 for Marcros.

It's actually Ceder of the Lebbanon which is used commonly in drawer bottoms, even veneered board will give of the aroma which is what repels moths and flies. It is an acquired smell though personally I love it but others hate it, but I would definitely use it if your going to be storing fabric long term, every little helps as they say.

 

[deserter]

Just looking at your drawing you could easily slop a piece of 6mm MDF veneered with CofL in the bottom after you've made it or else even make a thin false bottom panel which could be used to store your certificate under.

 

[Bremner]

Perhaps the veneered boards is a little more expensive than I'd expect for 12mm stuff I think I paid about £50 last year per sheet of oak veneered 18mm stuff.

Have a check against SL Hardwoods who will ship nationwide.

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/ParBoardsTimber.aspx?ID=35

http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/SheetMater ... aspx?ID=46

For my 2 pennies worth, I wouldn't bother with a veneered lid, a solid lid would be much nicer especially seen as your going to have crossed grain pattern on the ends. You're best bet is to post up the dimensions of that box and see if a nice forum member would plane up the stock for you.

Thanks for the reply chems, I checked the prices compared to the link you posted and when you factor in the dreaded VAT and delivery they are pretty similar, the MDF price is better and a more manageable board size but when you add on the delivery I might as well get the 8x4. I considered a solid top but thought the Veneered route might create a more stable top, the dimensions for the finished box are 500mm x 750mm x 150mm or in old money 20" x 30" x 6".

Hi Brem,

Congrats of course, and welcome.

Have a look at second-hand shops, to find an old sideboard or chest of drawers (The 1930s-40s styles.) The drawers are usually made of solid oak, quite often quarter-sawn; and the rest from good, oak-faced birch ply. With enough drawer fronts, you'd have plenty of stock.
Just a thought.

Thanks for the reply Benchwayze, I thought about this as there's a big reclamation yard close to me I've never visited but time is quite a big factor as the big day is on the 3rd June and RAPIDLY approaching and I don't have a PT to uniform all the boards I'd have to do it by hand belt sander/plane etc.

why not veneer a piece of mdf yourself- saves buying a full sheet for a box lid and base. ebay is good for veneer offcuts/small pieces, or put a wanted ad on here.

edit: I didnt see that the box was for dress storage and therefore quite large

Thanks for the reply marcos, yes its a bit of a beast as far as boxes go, to veneer a box this big I'd of thought I'd need a veneer press or something similar so I dismissed the idea early on.

That stock list above is going to weigh a bit!

Will you have the energy. :wink:

Thanks for the reply devonwoody, yes the box will weigh a fair bit with 1" stock would have preferred 1/2" but again cant find a supplier and don't have the facility to thickness it down, plus the heavier I make it the less likely she is to keep getting it down out of the wardrobe and messing with it (she reckons she's going to wear it round the house mad bint!)

Am I correct in thinking the box is for storage after the event?
If so, my advice would be to sell the dress on eBay and make a jewellery box.
As a father of two daughters, I speak from experience - still storing 3 dresses!

Rod

Thanks for the reply Rod, I wish this was an option but shes obsessed with the thing, I put the eBay question to her a couple of weeks ago, The response was colorful to say the least and I wont be asking again :shock: I've already made her a jewelery box (below) and as you can see its full, if I make her a new bigger one she will buy more jewelry which will eat into my budget for new toys (i.e tools)

Another thought- you may want to incorporate some cedar into your plan- traditionally used for its moth repelling qualities.

Thanks for the reply marcos, great idea might just look for some thin stock on eBay and line the bottom of the box with it, cheers

 

[Bremner]

+1 for Marcros.

It's actually Ceder of the Lebbanon which is used commonly in drawer bottoms, even veneered board will give of the aroma which is what repels moths and flies. It is an acquired smell though personally I love it but others hate it, but I would definitely use it if your going to be storing fabric long term, every little helps as they say.

Just looking at your drawing you could easily slop a piece of 6mm MDF veneered with CofL in the bottom after you've made it or else even make a thin false bottom panel which could be used to store your certificate under.

Thanks for the replies deserter, just looking on eBay and there's some solid stock available ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cedar-Lebanon ... 45f4284193 ) and a few veneer sellers who I could email, good idea about the certificate storage as well I might try to incorporate that (knowing her though she probably wants to frame it! like I said mad bint!)

cheers brem

 

[Cheshirechappie]

A couple of websites that might be worth a look are British Hardwoods and Interesting Timbers. Both supply (amongst many other good things) machined timber, and both are prepared to dispatch small quantities nationwide. (I've not personally used either firm, but have heard positive reports about both.)

 

[Benchwayze]

Well Brem,

I understand your worry over thicknessing. But if you used an old chest of drawers, the stuff would be thicknessed perfectly. In fact, you could leave the external finish on, while you cut the dovetails, and then clean-up later. Definitely look for some cedar of Lebanon though.

My wife kept her dress, in the box it came in from the dressmaker. When we looked it out some time ago, we found out where all the moths were coming from! :mrgreen: Well it is 50 years old!
:wink:

 

[Bremner]

A couple of websites that might be worth a look are British Hardwoods and Interesting Timbers. Both supply (amongst many other good things) machined timber, and both are prepared to dispatch small quantities nationwide. (I've not personally used either firm, but have heard positive reports about both.)

Thanks for the reply cheshirechappie, cheers for the links will have a look through them today, for some reason I shied away from mail order timber just seemed like I was paying a premium and could find it cheaper locally but as I've found out locally isn't an option. Going off your user name I assume your from Cheshire, where do you buy your hardwoods from, It's not that far from me and I'm over there a lot in the summer months car booting.

Well Brem,

I understand your worry over thicknessing. But if you used an old chest of drawers, the stuff would be thicknessed perfectly. In fact, you could leave the external finish on, while you cut the dovetails, and then clean-up later. Definitely look for some cedar of Lebanon though.

My wife kept her dress, in the box it came in from the dressmaker. When we looked it out some time ago, we found out where all the moths were coming from! :mrgreen: Well it is 50 years old!
:wink:

Thanks for the reply Benchwayze, I suppose it is worth looking into never thought of cleaning it up after when all the joinery's cut it would make dealing with squeeze out easier. Yes massive thanks to marcos for suggesting the cedar don't think she would have been happy if her precious dress gets eaten, then again I wouldn't either after what it's flippin cost! :shock: .

cheers brem

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Actually, I find buying hardwoods in small quantities damn difficult. Joinery grade softwoods are no problem, and some of the better builders' merchants supply unsorted redwood (which is the better stuff), so no real supply problem there. However, all the small local sawmills are long gone, and the bigger mills and timber merchants are set up to supply businesses and builders by the lorry-load. The chap who just wants a couple of planks is a damn nuisance to many of them, especially the ones that want to sort through piles looking for the best boards - you can make yourself very unpopular in timber yards doing that sort of thing!

Short of rummaging in skips, there isn't a cheap way of getting timber. Decent wood costs money. Bear in mind that sawmilling kit is quite a capital investment, and that a mill may have a lot of capital tied up in stock air-drying or kilned and stored under cover awaiting sale, so they have to cover the costs of interest on that capital.

To get good timber in the quantities us bumbling amateurs need, it's best to pay the mail-order prices. Hauling planks is not necessarily all that easy in a small family car, either, so paying extra for someone else to deliver it to your door can be worth it.

A couple of places that might be worth checking out are Arnold Laver Timberworld in Irlam, and Richard Potter in Nantwich.

All the hardwoods I've used in the past have been mail order (Craft Supplies used to do this - don't know if they still do) or came from Alan Holtam's Old Stores Turnery in Nantwich - I'm not sure if they are still going. All my recent jobs have been softwood ones.

 

[Benchwayze]

A couple of websites that might be worth a look are British Hardwoods and Interesting Timbers. Both supply (amongst many other good things) machined timber, and both are prepared to dispatch small quantities nationwide. (I've not personally used either firm, but have heard positive reports about both.)

Thanks for the reply cheshirechappie, cheers for the links will have a look through them today, for some reason I shied away from mail order timber just seemed like I was paying a premium and could find it cheaper locally but as I've found out locally isn't an option. Going off your user name I assume your from Cheshire, where do you buy your hardwoods from, It's not that far from me and I'm over there a lot in the summer months car booting.

Well Brem,

I understand your worry over thicknessing. But if you used an old chest of drawers, the stuff would be thicknessed perfectly. In fact, you could leave the external finish on, while you cut the dovetails, and then clean-up later. Definitely look for some cedar of Lebanon though.

My wife kept her dress, in the box it came in from the dressmaker. When we looked it out some time ago, we found out where all the moths were coming from! :mrgreen: Well it is 50 years old!
:wink:

Thanks for the reply Benchwayze, I suppose it is worth looking into never thought of cleaning it up after when all the joinery's cut it would make dealing with squeeze out easier. Yes massive thanks to marcos for suggesting the cedar don't think she would have been happy if her precious dress gets eaten, then again I wouldn't either after what it's flippin cost! :shock: .

cheers brem

Brem,
I probably don't need to remind you to clean the inner faces first. A sharp plane and a fine set will do that without appreciably affecting the thickness.
Best of luck

 

[Bremner]

Actually, I find buying hardwoods in small quantities damn difficult. Joinery grade softwoods are no problem, and some of the better builders' merchants supply unsorted redwood (which is the better stuff), so no real supply problem there. However, all the small local sawmills are long gone, and the bigger mills and timber merchants are set up to supply businesses and builders by the lorry-load. The chap who just wants a couple of planks is a damn nuisance to many of them, especially the ones that want to sort through piles looking for the best boards - you can make yourself very unpopular in timber yards doing that sort of thing!

Short of rummaging in skips, there isn't a cheap way of getting timber. Decent wood costs money. Bear in mind that sawmilling kit is quite a capital investment, and that a mill may have a lot of capital tied up in stock air-drying or kilned and stored under cover awaiting sale, so they have to cover the costs of interest on that capital.

To get good timber in the quantities us bumbling amateurs need, it's best to pay the mail-order prices. Hauling planks is not necessarily all that easy in a small family car, either, so paying extra for someone else to deliver it to your door can be worth it.

A couple of places that might be worth checking out are Arnold Laver Timberworld in Irlam, and Richard Potter in Nantwich.

All the hardwoods I've used in the past have been mail order (Craft Supplies used to do this - don't know if they still do) or came from Alan Holtam's Old Stores Turnery in Nantwich - I'm not sure if they are still going. All my recent jobs have been softwood ones.

Thanks for the reply Cheshirechappie, thanks for the comprehensive write up its nice to know its not just myself who struggles to find what I want and mail order is the only option for small quantities. Will check out the places you listed as well. I think its because I watch so many podcasts and woody TV programs from the states every thing they make is mahogany, oak, poplar, and what not, they make it seem like its in abundance and cheap as chips.

Brem,
I probably don't need to remind you to clean the inner faces first. A sharp plane and a fine set will do that without appreciably affecting the thickness.
Best of luck

Thanks for the reply Benchwayze, yes good point about getting the inside faces sorted before anything else will make sure I do that if I go that route.

Cheers, brem

 

[Bremner]

Finally at the painting stage of some pedestals so hopefully the weather will hold up tomorrow and I can get these sprayed and finished off so I can get started on the box.

Not had any luck finding anything to destroy and recycle as Benchwayze suggested and still waiting for replies to emails I sent to the timber merchants cheshirechappie posted, but in the mean time I've had a practice cutting some dovetails on some nice pine that I "liberated" from a site I was on. I'm quite happy with them as they are my first attempt and I was using a stanley backsaw with a massive set on it and my old irwin chisels.

I also had a play about with some dye and my home made wipe on polyurathane (a'la norm). This turned out better than I expected, nice even colour, no brush marks and a lovely smooth glass finish.

So I'm considering maybe using softwood after all but I'm not sure if the final product would look a mess with the grain looking so open (don't know if that's the correct term), also the cost saving aspect is handy as plastering work has dried up and I've ordered some new japanese chisels and japanese saws in the rutlands easter sale so money is a little short.

It would be interesting to know what you guys think of going the softwood route?

Cheers Brem

 

[Bremner]

I've just fired off a few emails regarding the cedar, I'm going to veneer the bottom rather than use solid stock. Do I leave the cedar unfinished/bare?

Cheers brem

 

[marcros]

why not veneer the rest of it too, rather than use softwood? You could use a strip of solid for any exposed edges