Hegner Scroll saw, big problem, need advise

[darthmuller]

I recently bought a second hand Hegner scroll saw, it was in very good condition and had seen very little use. I bought Hegner because I have only heard praises about the machines and often considered the 'best'.

OK on to my dilemma: I got it home plugged it in, switched it on and was horrified! Noisy and vibrating very badly, I immediately thought something was wrong. I have two other lesser quality scroll saws, and even the supermarket Ryobi was far quieter and with less vibrations.

OK, so went in for closer look: at first I noticed the upper and lower arms were not parallel when looking down along their length. I thought the bushings might have been worn, but no, perfect. Then it seemed that the pins might have been bent, but NO.

Stripped the arms off and the 'C arm' and was horrified once again. The two pins are totally misaligned! The C arm is badly bent! And this is not from being abused or dropped or from any form of operational misuse. To bend that 'C arm' between the two pivot pins would take tremendous force. It would need to fall from a cliff to have that sort of damage.

Has anyone heard of this problem with the Hegners??? It is clearly a production issue.

Who has some useful info with this problem. And before anyone out there assumes I am a idiot, let me tell you I rebuild machines professionally and for my private use. And know when things are not true and what has been damaged from abuse or force. The C arm on the Hegner is extremely well build and heavy duty. I could only assume it is a casting issue.

 

[martinka]

As you state you rebuild machines professionally, I am hesitant to ask this, but are you sure it is the casting that is bent and not one of the pivot pins that has been screwed in cross threaded and now won't screw in straight, or is simply bent? Even if it were a bad casting, which I couldn't see getting through, the holes would be drilled and tapped in a jig and still hopefully be 'square'. The reason I am asking this is because one of the pivot pins on mine was bent slightly and caused a lot of problems. Luckily I was able to straighten it. Whatever the problem is, I hope you can get it sorted as i can imagine a new part coming from Germany to South Aftrica isn't going to be cheap.

 

[Chippygeoff]

I feel for you and the problems you have encountered. Its all very well giving advice but If I had been in your shoes I would have tried the saw before parting with hard earned cash but the horse has already bolted. From what you have said I would guess the saw has been dropped and used by someone not familiar with a scroll saw. Hegers are very good machines and very well made so when someone buys a new one they are almost ready to go from the box. There is a guy at Hegner called Chris Waghorn in the tec department, he is probably the most helpful guy I have ever met. Parts wont be cheap and on reflection it may have been wiser to have bought a better Hegner is better condition. If the saw is bolted down there should be no vibration. I can stand a glass of water on my table and at full speed there is not a murmur. I sincerely hope you manage to sort it out, its a wonderful machine and you should have many years of enjoyable use from it.

 

[darthmuller]

The machine has absolutely no signs of abuse or any wear, not even paint chip to indicate it has had a drop. That casting is very strong and to bend it would have been a substantial drop that would have damaged a lot more than the c arm.

Yes it is very strange!! The pins are perfect, threads are 100% true and have never been tampered with. Yes this part would have been bored in jigs, so to have the two pins out of alignment is very unusual.
I really puzzles me how that very sturdy casting would be bent so much without any other damage what so ever. Unfortunately the seller was 1000km from my hometown, so I sent brother to go and visually inspect the machine. He has a eye for detail and I cannot blame his initial thoughts that the machine looked in near new condition without any signs of abuse.

I did not notice it until I first switched on the machine.

 

[darthmuller]

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. I do not repaint old machines, I recondition them. Which is surface grinding, machine complete new components and even modifying them for specific needs. Wood work is a hobby.

That is why I am so confused how this 'Hegner' is so out of true. And saying it was caused from someone operating the machine with no scroll saw experience is rather weak. So I assuming the guy that used it as a press for fitting bearing parts previously????? To bend that c arm in even the most severe case of overload would be quite an achievement.

I will certainly not buy a replacement part from Hegner. I will rather rebore both pin holes and seats and make two custom over sized pins. 95 pounds for the replacement part?? They must be smoking strong weed.

 

[darthmuller]

Martin

You made some valid points. Yes I initially thought it was going to be the case of a bent pin or loose fitting or so on. Which I could easily understand, this could be bend by a little neglect or even a light bump or fall.
But no casting bend between two pins. I stripped the machine and have had the C arm on an alignment table which is used for aligning precision components, checked with mitutoyo height gauges. So I am not relying on my eye balls.

You are right components from Hegner to South Africa are very pricey. I like the machine very much, so a little disappointed. I will rebuild and post pictures.

I worked in the U.S.A for a few years with a company doing complex aluminium fabrications and heat treatment of components, so I know castings can have stress in them and even bend after machining. Sounds like nonsense, but it happens.

 

[hooch]

Can you post a pic of the bent part
May help us all
Also have you enquirer at hegner if they ever had a poor casting issue

 

[stevebuk]

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. .

Totally uncalled for, Geoff is a very experienced scroller and is just offering his take on your situation, and for you to come asking for advice then lambasting one of the recipients is disgraceful.

As you have worked for the 'Top end' fabricators and Hegner is just a toy perhaps you should find an engineering forum and leave us poor minions to our wood cutting...

 

[M P Hales]

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. .

Totally uncalled for, Geoff is a very experienced scroller and is just offering his take on your situation, and for you to come asking for advice then lambasting one of the recipients is disgraceful.

As you have worked for the 'Top end' fabricators and Hegner is just a toy perhaps you should find an engineering forum and leave us poor minions to our wood cutting...

+1 :x

 

[redmoorphil]

Well Done Darthmuller!
You come onto the forum asking for help, and when it is given you insult one of the members.
I suspect you may be better off finding another forum where the participants don't treat each other as respectfully as they do on here, as it is now unlikely that you will ever receive any further help.
I doubt that anything we could say could help somebody in such a superior position anyway.
Chippygeoff is definitely one of our most respected, respectful and helpful members on here and you have just successfully shot yourself in the foot.

 

[Bryan Bennett]

I agree with the above post,and having Geoff has a friend who has helped me so much since I joined the group in many ways.It is a insult to us all to have a individual post these comments on this website.

Bryan

 

[bassethound]

Darthmuller

Totally agree that you need to find another forum! :?

 

[ChrisR]

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. I do not repaint old machines, I recondition them. Which is surface grinding, machine complete new components and even modifying them for specific needs. Wood work is a hobby.

That is why I am so confused how this 'Hegner' is so out of true. And saying it was caused from someone operating the machine with no scroll saw experience is rather weak. So I assuming the guy that used it as a press for fitting bearing parts previously????? To bend that c arm in even the most severe case of overload would be quite an achievement.

I will certainly not buy a replacement part from Hegner. I will rather rebore both pin holes and seats and make two custom over sized pins. 95 pounds for the replacement part?? They must be smoking strong weed.

Geoff, took the time to post his advice, which was valid, and from a very experienced (Hegner) user, so why the attack ?.

If you are such an experienced engineer, maybe you should have been able to sort the problem for yourself without asking advice from this forum.
Please don’t attack people who are trying to help you.
I hope you now have got the message by the number of posts you have generated regarding your post directed at Geoff.

Chris R.

 

[Geoffrey]

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. I do not repaint old machines, I recondition them. Which is surface grinding, machine complete new components and even modifying them for specific needs. Wood work is a hobby.

That is why I am so confused how this 'Hegner' is so out of true. And saying it was caused from someone operating the machine with no scroll saw experience is rather weak. So I assuming the guy that used it as a press for fitting bearing parts previously????? To bend that c arm in even the most severe case of overload would be quite an achievement.

I will certainly not buy a replacement part from Hegner. I will rather rebore both pin holes and seats and make two custom over sized pins. 95 pounds for the replacement part?? They must be smoking strong weed.

Geoff, took the time to post his advice, which was valid, and from a very experienced (Hegner) user, so why the attack ?.

If you are such an experienced engineer, maybe you should have been able to sort the problem for yourself without asking advice from this forum.
Please don’t attack people who are trying to help you.
I hope you now have got the message by the number of posts you have generated regarding your post directed at Geoff.

Chris R.

1+ :shock: I don't think the saw was in existence he didn't take Hooch up on the pics.

Geoffrey

 

[darthmuller]

For all that would like to see a bent casting.

Firstly the casting is not square to the bottom mounting face as indicated by the Moore&Wright machinist square. Secondly both pins are bend inwards. I could almost reason the thought of the top pin being bent, but casting is already bent badly before the lower pin. So do the math on that one. To bend that casting that much before the lower pin will take Superman's strength. And the cast alloy base is perfect???? To bend that casting would certainly break the base casting. I also know that casting are never perfectly square and the pins would be jigged and machined parallel to the base.

So who has some comments?

OK I will make an apology to Geoff on this forum, I might have been to hasty. But it can be frustrating to hear comments along the lines: you should have checked it first, and Hegner's are perfect type attitude. Yes this is why I bought one, because I believe in buying good tooling and have only heard good things about Hegner. I am not trying to run Hegner down, just informing people out there that not everything is perfect and be careful. I will probably re-machine this component and put new bushings in casting and the machine will be great again.

I have worked in industry which specialised in cnc alloy components, and let me tell you this: if you think every component that comes from a jig is 100%, thing again. Parts do get through inspection at times without being perfect. Human error prevails.

And after consulting with other professionals in both the casting and fabricating industry they have all stated that this is quite possible to have happened in the machining process. If any doubt the other components for additional signs of wear and damage, I will photograph and post.

 

[mac1012]

not wishing to frustrate you more but it looks to me like that top pin has had a wack at some stage :lol: :lol: :lol:

ok you may be able to demonstrate that it was in the manufacturing process , but one thing puzzles me if that was the case who in their right mind would have paid all that money for a brand new hegner for it to be unusable and then not send it back ?

just a thought....

Don't worry about your comments sometimes we all say things in haste I have had far worse things said to me on uk workshop and seen far worse comments that are just insults to wind someone up (and me ) people with far too much time on their hands and need to get out more :shock: ,at least yours wasn't like that 8) 8) 8)

There is no reason for you not to be on here you have as much right as anyone else its not an exclusive club


mark

 

[darthmuller]

Some people just don't know any better and probably thought it was the norm. Well I spent a day on the re-machining an alignment the Hegner. It is now 100% true and tolerances all neat and smooth. Checked all moving parts and all good.

BUT!!!!! Still not as good as I thought it would be!!!!!!!!!! I have compared it to a few other lesser Chinese made scroll saws and was disappointed that the Hegner still vibrates more than saw 1/4 of it's price. Really does not make any sense to me. Even with all the work I did, it is still the same as before when it had the bent pins.

Geez!!! There must be a answer out there somewhere for this problem. Does anyone know of some skillful trick to improve this saws balance????????

Here are some additional pics of the repairs and bronze bushings I made to improve this little machine.

Sorry, forgot to photograph the bushings in-place before assemble. I will take pictures soon, but I want to run it for a little while and then I will take apart once again and inspect bushes and check for any unusual signs of wear. But I am very confident that it is running very true after the rebore.

Mac, I hear you say it 'took a knock' on the pin, but how would you explain the bottom pin bent upwards?? the two pins were converging.

 

[heatherw]

I'm also mystified, you'd think they would have noticed

i) during assembly, wouldn't they have had to force something to get the pieces together?
ii) As Mac said, what was the the first owner doing not taking it back? Unless it was one of those times when you buy something and then don't get around to using it for 3 years.

There aren't any fake Hegners around, are there?

 

[woodndrum]

Hi, setting aside some of the heated and perhaps misinformed comment, thanks for the pictures. Afraid I had some difficulty understanding or appreciating the problem. The pictures clearly show this. As I am currently searching the market for a second hand Hegner I would like to try and understand how you are able to fix the problem (if it's possible) Buying an item second hand at long distance like this almost always involves a level of trust. I'm sorry to think that you have been let down, and secondly am concerned that I may be duped in the same way. Thanks, Keith

 

[ChrisR]

Hi, setting aside some of the heated and perhaps misinformed comment, thanks for the pictures. Afraid I had some difficulty understanding or appreciating the problem. The pictures clearly show this. As I am currently searching the market for a second hand Hegner I would like to try and understand how you are able to fix the problem (if it's possible) Buying an item second hand at long distance like this almost always involves a level of trust. I'm sorry to think that you have been let down, and secondly am concerned that I may be duped in the same way. Thanks, Keith

Keith.

I was not going to post on this tread again.

But to alleviate some of your concerns, I am certain that this saw did not leave the Hanger factory in that condition, if the saw is as bad as trying to be indicated then it has had a chequered past, its as simple as that.
I am not sure what the thread originator is trying to prove.

If you purchase a new Hegner you have zero risk of being stuck with a defective machine, because on the off chance that a defective saw did leave the factory. Then Hegner or their appointed dealer would replace it without question.
If you are purchasing second hand then ideally you need to inspect before you purchase, or have a return agreement in place.
Or purchase from a trusted source.

If you do obtain a Hegner in the future new or secondhand, I am sure you will be very pleased with its performance, having said that, It goes without saying, that Hegner is not the only quality scroll saw on the market.

Take care,

Chris R.