Gouge question!

[Chris152]

I was struggling to get rid of tearout today on the outside of a bowl, so gritted my teeth and had a go at scraping as in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUlk61XSB9o
It worked well I think, but I'm using my bowl gouge (fingernail grind) which has limited distance on the wings, and it looks (in the video) like it'd work better with more swept-back wings. But I only have one bowl gouge and want to keep the grind as it is. I do have a 10mm spindle gouge (much thinner) that I don't use - if I reground that to be very swept back , would it be suitable for scraping, or would its narrowness create problems? I can't see it would, but thought I'd ask before I do any damage.

Also, I bought a Glen Teagle round carbide chisel last week as they look really easy and quick for roughing out, and I'm really pleased with it - the boards I'm using at the moment aren't at all thicknessed so there's lots of movement along the faces, and this tool's made it much quicker and less chance of nastiness happening. I find I have to stop some way before trying to finish as it tears a fair bit, but that's fine. Do others on the forum use carbide tips for this kind of thing?

Thanks
C

 

[Walnut Les]

NO. don't even think about it, not only would you end up bending your spindle gouge the vibration would be well bad.
Scrapers are thick to cope with the stresses that you put on them your 10mm tool is for fine detail work. I hope that this helps
Les

 

[Walnut Les]

Sorry only half an answer to your post.
Carbide tools are good for wood removal but can cause a lot of tear out, many people use the carbide tools for removing wood and getting the shape of what they are making and then they swap over to high speed steel tools for finishing off.
Les

 

[nev]

+1 for what Les says - spindle gouges are not as strong as bowl gouges and not made to resist the possible forces they may meet.

Tear out can be hard to deal with on some timbers and you can also get stubborn patches in otherwise lovely to cut wood if theres a twist in the grain or similar.
First off you need your tools to be Sharp (capital S). Your bowl gouge as it is can be used as you describe as long as it is Sharp and the cuts you take are as fine and light as you can make them.
If the tear out persists try some sanding sealer. It stiffens the fibres a little so you can cut their heads off instead of pushing them over.
The rest is down to technique and practice and sharp tools. Did I mention Sharp tools enough
If you feel your gouge is sharp enough and you're not getting anywhere and you think a different gouge will help, grab a round nosed scraper. They're simple to sharpen and as long as you use very light cuts will probably get rid of most of your issues.*

*Depending on your timber. If you're using offcuts of fencepost or redwood/pine from a builders merchant for practice as most of us did be warned pine can be a nightmare for tear out unless your tools a really ..... yep, sharp.

As an aside, carbide tools can be excellent for some jobs (apparently - not used one myself) but they're not ideal for everything and I have my suspicions about the woodturning knowledge or maybe its just the wording on Mr Teagles site.
to quote from the website...

Square Carbide Chisel: Also known as a roughing chisel by wood turners. Ideally suited to straight plunge cuts and removing wood quickly and efficiently. It is also very versatile - for facing off the base of bowls in preparation for forming your tenon for mounting in your chuck - turning smaller lighter jobs like pen turning and small detial work

I think the gentleman may need to rephrase his wording which is very misleading and could result in much disappointment if not injury to those learning to use a gouge.
e.g.
1. They're gouges not chisels, a term most turners would use.
2. Plunge a roughing gouge straight into timber and you'll learn very quickly thats not how you use one.

But that may be just the way I read it.

 

[Dalboy]

As above SHARP tools did Nev mention that

You will find that when you get tear out and even if you do use a sealer to aid getting rid of it that you may need to take several fine cuts to get rid of it again as stated with sharp tools if need be after each cut resharpen depending on how the cut is and the type of wood.

I have some of the carbide tools and really only use the square one for working on end grain vessels/boxes but not for the final cuts I sometimes use the round one but very rarely use the detailed one.

 

[Chris152]

Thank you, gentlemen. Glad I asked about the gouge/ scraper - it's not that I'll never do any spindle work, but the spindle gouge has sat there since it came with the set and I've not even sharpened it. I find that scraping method works well for the finest removal of marks/ tears, so I'll keep an eye open for another bowl gouge. And not lose an eye trying to use the spindle gouge.

I used the carbide tool again last night and found that with very fine cuts tearout is really minimal - I still needed to finish with final cuts with the bowl gouge, but I think it's really good for getting rid of lots of wood quickly. That said, I've seen skilled turners on the net who remove stock much quicker with a bowl gouge - but for a learner, it's a good tool, and much less chance of a catch (especially if the wood's very wobbly) as far as I can tell.

Oh, and I'll try to remember to keep tools sharp. I think I'm doing ok-ish with that - I bought a Sorby proedge at the outset and really glad I did. It literally takes a few seconds to refresh the edge and carry on turning.
Thanks again,
C

 

[Paul Hannaby]

The two main reasons for torn grain are techique and tool sharpness. If you crack both of those, you will improve the surface left after cutting.

What that video is showing is shaping with a scraper on wet wood. Dry wood tends to tear more and a different approach for finishing cuts is needed. Look up shear scraping (or sheer scraping, depending who you talk to!).

Perhaps I'm just odd but I use a 1/2" spindle gouge with a fingernail grind to shape and finish the outside of all my bowls up to around 12" diameter. I do that because most of my bowl gouges don't have a fingernail grind on them. I prefer the straight / traditional grind, which I use on the inside of the bowl or very occasionally (because I can achieve the same with the spindle gouge) for a push cut finishing cut on the outside.

For larger bowls, I do use a bowl gouge with fingernail grind on the outside because the extra extension of the gouge over the rest needs a longer handle for control. I still use a straight grind on the inside!

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Paul. I found this one on sheer scraping which is pretty clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDIvtr7StuA
I might have a go with the lathe speed really slow til I'm confident - Chas suggested maybe this method isn't great for novices!