Furniture Research - Help!

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cowfoot":31uwylww said:
Hi Joseph
you’ll be delighted to know that your “just make stuff then flog it” philosophy is currently having a bit of a moment...except it goes by the name of “minimum viable product”!
Hi Cowheel
"just make stuff then flog it" is probably how 99% of businesses (making and selling) get started , large or small. The inclination to do "market research" shows lack of confidence and risk aversion. Not a good starting point - though it does provide employment for market researchers; generally people who can't get proper jobs.
 
Fair enough, I’ll tell the British Library business research centre they might as well call it a day, some fella off a woodwork forum reckons it’s a waste of time ;)
 
I wonder how many businesses get started by visiting the British Library business research centre? I'd research that first.

Seriously though - if market research was any good every would-be furniture maker (wanting to get wealthy) would have followed the IKEA model.
I doubt Kamprad RIP did any research at all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingvar_Kamprad
 
cowfoot":1ql50voo said:
Don’t you ever get bored of yourself?
Moi? :lol:
Your sort of query comes up a lot, but a lot of successful businesses start up by risk taking and finding the niches which market research would not.
Hope that helps.
 
ooh interesting, Jacob has found a padawan for Bugbear :) lol
 
Had to look up 'padawan' :D
I've got a friend who earns a huge salary as a university lecturer in 'marketing'. He's over the moon on market research!
But he seems to know FA about how to actually do 'marketing' - compared to the many self-employed chancers I normally associate with.
He did have a go at setting up one little business for a craft worker I know, but it was a total flop. I think this was the sum total of his practical experience
 
I glad to say your doing it wrong. I've wanted to say that to someone for years.

I have worked at teaching innovation and thinking for 20+ years in the EU/UK/USA and Asia.

I think that most of the above comments carry some ring of truth BUT no solutions. Most comments are just cliche's. Where to start.

1) Define your problem. As in "How might I sell lots of chairs made from Cheddar Cheese in Yorkshire" OR " How might I put a man on the moon using furniture off cuts" or whatever. Maybe " How might I create a market for mid range dining tables better than Ikea but less than the substance of David Savage to social classes A,B and some affluent Cs and make a profit.

2) Ask 2 questions. 1) What do I know and accept as truth 2) What do I not know but need to find out. Then go find out. Paper based market research is not a lot of use here.

3) Create a market segmentation maybe starting at David Savage and dropping down to IKEA with maybe 5 to 10 subsegments between the 2. This will give you some idea of who your clients may be and what they are buying.

4) Consider the opportunity to cross sell to someone else's customers. eg Someone who will drop £2.5k to £12K on solid wood floors might also drop £5k on bespoke furniture, is there a market for excellent mid price board room furniture + chairs etc etc.

5) Add into your segmentation

6) Divide the whole market by segments you have chosen to work in. Be strict and do not allow overlaps of data/double counting.

7) Make a prototype and try to reveal it, sell it to a segment member of two. Test marketing to arouse interest, trial close to sell, try to sell.

8) If successful make a batch to estimated minimum available market size -- might only be 3 or 5 or 10 units and go sell them.

9) Be prepared to spend 4 days a week test selling/marketing for awhile dropping to 2 days a week as sales increase. Never drop below 2 days a week. Consider impact on making/delivering and need for staff.

There is lots more detail to include. I have created and brought to market over 20 products (non-wood based though) and the above outline approach has always worked because it is independent of product.
 
Not independent of product at all. Without the product you can sell nothing. Could you set up a bakery independent of bread?
Yes your systematic approach could work well, but "making and flogging" are still the only essential details, and usually sufficient. Your point 7 is more than enough!
 
Misread and wrong again . The method is independent of product and works with just about anything and I have sold £ millions of value with no discernable product in your terms. Having a product is one thing but you need to know what product for what audience or at least a good approximation. Products are 10 a penny, ideas and direction are a rare skill.
 
Absolutely disagree. Good ideas are two a penny. Making something sellable is very likely to demand skill and risk taking. No you don't need to know (yet) who will buy it but you do need to get out there and flog it. If it's really off the wall you may be taking a big risk but there may be a profitable niche out there.

nb spelling; tragedy only one D
 
if you believe that then why are you messing about with market research. Just make and sell.

Good ideas are as rare as hens teeth. All ideas are born drowning and it takes something very special to get an idea through various stages of development.

You obviously don't get it so I will not reply any more. Alan over and out.
 
I don't mess about with market research - too busy making things and selling things (well I was until I retired).
Have you ever made and sold anything Alan? I guess not as you say you find good ideas hard to come by. :lol:
Thanks for the train of thought though - it's clarified for me something I've felt for a long time - that "market research" etc may be for people who are bereft of creative ideas and/or averse to risk taking. Obvious really.

nb spelling; tragedy only one D
 
What a poor ignorant troll you really are Jacob. To small minded to actually understand what was written to try to help.

Your assertion about my lack of ideas is amusing if somewhat crass. One of us owns a few patents for our ideas turned into products and I'm pretty certain its not you.

The phrase "market research" is one of the most misunderstood in the English language and you don't get it at all.

It seems you are the type who says he knows what its all about after looking at a few old windows or furniture. The past is no guide to the future at all its just a memory of how poor old stuff used to be so great.

I regret getting involved with trying to help such a stick-in-the-mud as you and I'm gone to better things.

Enjoy yourself Jacob I'm sure others won't.
 
Going back to the OP’s original thread, many years’ ago I did a marketing course. From what I remember, the key things to remember when trying to sell a product were the 4 P’s
• Product
• Price
• Promotion
• Packaging

You could have great product at a good price but, if nobody knows about it, you’ve a warehouse full of unsold items.

There are two approaches to selling:

Jacob’s – decide what you want to make, make it, go out and sell it. If your hunch is right then you are on to a winner. Otherwise, you’ve wasted a lot of time and effort not to mention lost income from what you could have spent your time on more profitably. Jacob’s approach works well if you start by making the product in your spare time whilst you are doing a related job (window restorations, furniture making in Jacob’s case?) and have the tools and materials to hand. Alternatively, you are in the position of having the luxury of being able to indulge your ideas since you don’t need the income to buy materials or to live on.

The market research lead approach – find out what people want, at what price and go away and satisfy that need. The problem with this is that most people, when asked, probably don’t know exactly what they want and, if they do, probably don’t have a true for the actual cost. This seems to happen a lot if you read various threads on here about members wanting to give up their boring job in IT or whatever and start making things but are advised by the professionals that there is no money in it as the public at large are geared up to Ikea/Oak Furniture Land prices plus the ability to search the market via the web and see if Amazon stock it cheaper.

The third way, I suppose, is the Richard Branson way. Find out what others have done, let them do the innovation and absorb all the start-up costs then join the market offering a trusted brand with better service etc. without having to recoup all the costs of the research. At least that is what he used to do with airlines/telephones and internet/railways etc.

Two final points. Firstly, Jacob’s approach worked for him. When, what he was selling, how he managed financially whist doing it hasn’t, I think, been fully explained. The world has changed a lot in 20 years, 10 even, what with the internet, computer games, social media, kids having mobile phones glued to their ears virtually from birth. Secondly, I think that the OP mentioned putting together a business plan. In this day and age, if you want to raise capital from a bank to start up a business, it’s essential to have one. And the first thing that the bank will look at is the market research that you have done to justify them giving you the loan.
 
Things haven't changed that much at all except that selling is far easier than ever thanks to the net.
The same sort of business and 'marketing' advice above was being put about for budding entrepreneurs from when I first started looking into it, about 1966 (making toys). We were advised to do 'market research', have 'business plans', make cash flow forecasts, borrow from banks, and so on. Most of this advice emanated from chaps in suits who were often failed business men themselves, and reduced to attempting to teach.
I don't think my approach is at all unusual and is in fact how a lot of successful startups get going. Being advised to borrow is some of the worst advice you can give to a start up working from a kitchen table like us. A business plan as such was impossible- we had no idea how it would work and only found out by doing it, cautiously a bit at a time, selling to friends, local shops, stalls at craft shows etc then eventually biting the bullet and going boldly in to posh shops department stores; John Lewis, Harrods, Habitat, Galt. You put your bag of samples together - walk in and ask to talk to the buyer. It's that simple. Eventually we ended sharing space with other small craft businesses, at trade shows - Earls Court, Harrogate, Birmingham NEC, etc.
Nowadays you start up on the net.
Make some stuff - see if you can flog it. Don't take advice from people who haven't done it themselves, or think you should get a bank loan.
Most of all - don't sit around doing fantasy business plans or you will just talk yourself out of it!
 
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