First time wood project - looking for advice.

[WonkyWorrel]

Hello to all who enter.

I have been interested in getting into woodworking for a long time, and have recently had another burst of activity researching this craft, later finding this great forum.

I purchased some carving knives and a chisel set a couple years ago, but did not really accomplish anything.
Now I have a project in mind, which seems simple, that I want to complete: making a box - a memory box - for my misses.
I know the method I am going attempt, nothing crazy just yet – like dovetail joints – finger joints I have decided.

I have found some wood....


but I have heard oak is harder to work with than beginner wood. I am going to need to plane, chisel and glue this piece of timber. Any advice from you guys, would be much appreciated. I do not want to spend too much money, I still need to buy a saw (which is the best for oak,) some clamps, coping saw; and some finishing supplement to bring out the wood.

I hope the image of the wood I am thinking about buying is attached. Thanks for your time.

 

[g7g7g7g7]

Hi there well done on deciding to get into wood-working.

I'd start by saying that cutting box joints by hand is pretty much exactly as difficult as cutting dovetails, it might actually be more difficult to execute well, sort of sloppy hand cut dovetails look alright but sort of sloppy box joints look terrible by comparison and they use exactly the same set of skills. You'd be better off starting with dovetails if I'm honest.

Whilst the wood you are looking at is technically "solid oak" it's a laminate made up of staves rather than a single piece of timber, hobby board is great for some projects but you'd have issues learning joinery with it.
I've seen British hardwoods recommended as an easy way to get hold of some Planed ready to go timber for a beginner to start working on but I've never bought from them myself.

https://www.britishhardwoods.co.uk/timb ... packs.html

You're best off finding a local timber specialist if you can although that can be more daunting than walking into B&Q or Halfords you'll actually find much more helpful and knowledgeable staff and probably have a much better buying experience.

 

[thetyreman]

finger joints are possibly more challenging than dovetails your accuracy has to be spot on and the wood dry so it won't shrink, dovetails allow for movement, they aren't as hard as they look once you've cut a few, never make anything without a solid plan and drawing that's ideally fullscale, then you can work backwards from the plan and the cutting list, learning to prepare wood is an important skill as well the actual making, getting accurate face/edge marks is important, all this before you even begin the project.

 

[sunnybob]

If your primary interest will be making boxes (of all kinds) and your skill level is low. I fully recommend a small or medium sized router table.
I couldnt have made my boxes without one, and believe me, my skill level is LOW!. :roll:

This box shows box joints done on the router table with a Trend comb cutter. The sides are alternating oak and beech.
http://www.pbase.com/john_cooper/image/167048385

Beech is a very good wood to start with, very forgiving.

 

[John15]

If your primary interest will be making boxes (of all kinds) and your skill level is low. I fully recommend a small or medium sized router table.
I couldnt have made my boxes without one, and believe me, my skill level is LOW!. :roll:

This box shows box joints done on the router table with a Trend comb cutter. The sides are alternating oak and beech.
http://www.pbase.com/john_cooper/image/167048385

Beech is a very good wood to start with, very forgiving.

To make a start in woodworking and make progress it might be better to use hand tools only and then move onto power tools if you prefer.
As mentioned, dovetails would be a better choice for a box. On my first project with dovetails I practiced at least a dozen times on scrap pieces until I achieved something acceptable.

John

 

[sunnybob]

John, I've had this discussion several times in the 4 years I've been into woodworking. In a traditional world, I would agree 100% (I was a 5 year apprentice over a half century ago).
But we are no longer in a traditional world, people have greater expectations and less patience.

Starting at age 65, I am working backwards through the hobby. I started with power tools, I use power tools for almost everything I do. None of my boxes or other "achievements" could have been made without them. I got instant results that were "reasonable", which encouraged me to try harder and learn more. If I had to rely on hand tools this hobby would be history for me. But I now occassionaly pick up a chisel, and have even used a hand plane! :shock:

The thing here, and often, is the man wants to START with a dovetail box. At what stage of a carpentry apprenticeship would the lad be allowed to make one of those? Day2? or month 6?

I would rather encourage a newbie to make something quickly and get satisfaction, leading him to find out more, than tell him to go away and plane scrap wood into shavings for a month. :roll:

Each to their own, and I make no criticism either way. 8) 8) 8)

 

[Ttrees]

Have a look at Rob Cosman's videos if you want to make boxes
No better skill building tutor on youtube that has sure methods of working, that won't get you into trouble.
I see plenty of folk who do get into trouble watching other folk.
Just skip past the sales videos and there is really good teaching there.
I suggest you not follow his tablesaw methods or plane refurbishing techniques/back bevels on plane irons though.
His work is focused on hand tool work despite the machines he has.
Plenty of watching on his channel

Good luck
Tom

 

[MikeG.]

All of the above.......and none of the above. If you've not done woodworking before, and you don't have a basic set of tools, I suggest you go and spend some time in an experienced guy's workshop first. If you say where you are in the country, I am sure someone here will be able to help you out for half a day.

 

[John15]

Sunnybob,
Point taken.
Cheers,
John

 

[thetyreman]

can't say I am a fan of cosman at all, which goes to show how different everyone is.

 

[sunnybob]

I havent seen any of this cossman (?) , but Toms post confuses me. he says there is some fantastic teaching there, but then goes on to warn that almost everything the man does is dangerous?

How can a newbie know what is and what isnt dangerous?

My approach to giving "help and advice" is based on over 20 years of teaching complete beginners how NOT to hurt themselves on the new machinery I had just installed.
Its not easy, because you use your own experience as a guide to teach them, and they do not know what you know. So every suggestion has to be thought through in advance so as to bring the advice down to their level and not to confuse the learner.

(bet he's wishing he never asked now #-o :roll: :lol: :lol: )
Wonky worrel... do what you will, but dont rule out power tools 8) 8)

 

[Ttrees]

As said Rob Cosman has a hand tool oriented approach
Phil Lowe has some good videos also

 

[johnnyb]

Firstly woodworking is the best of hobbies. But a dovetail box is for later. The hobby board is great so use that. Look on eBay and get some rose head nails. Cut your wood to size. Square on the ends. Pre drill and nail your box together. Get some iron strap hinges and put your lid on. Drop in a bottom or nail one on. Remember to be square a boxes sides need to be the same length. When assembled the diagonal measurements need to be the same. Next sand and finish your box.
You've made a box the same same way generations of Craftsmen did(and still do). The box will last centuries. Nailing a box together is not inferior in fact it can be much better and more...appropriate also try redwood pine first 9×1 par.

 

[WonkyWorrel]

Wow. Thanks for the response everyone! What a great resource this forum provides: linking all of your experience and thoughts to help me get started and develop a foundation for further woodworking projects!

I had a feeling this wood may have been an issue. My girlfriends birthday is on Thursday, and i have spent too much time researching rather than getting something made. But it can be a nice suprise at a later date, since this is a life long interest and i need a lot of knowledge and practise to properly finish the box, and get the tools i need, etc.

I was planning on only using a trademen cutting frame, but i need a proper work bench, perhaps this should be my first project!

I will start by getting some scrap wood and practising dovetail joints as reccommend, thanks for this great insight - ive watched a few videos and they look great and very satisfying to make..
Thanks for your time gents ! 8)

 

[thomashenry]

If you are making by hand, go with dovetails. Finger joints are essentially a power-tool thing IMO. You could try to do them by hand as an exercise, but there's a reason that dovetails are the universal de facto box joint in traditional joinery.

I'd encourage you to use hand tools and dovetails. I made a dovetail box in a 5 week evening class run by Matt Estlea - never done one dovetail before that. The box came out ok - some of the dovetails were sloppy but I was surprised at how do-able it was. It's really not as difficult as you might think.

I'd avoid oak at first, and go with poplar, which I think is pretty much the best beginner wood there is.

 

[Tasky]

I havent seen any of this cossman

I've seen a lot, including some of his DVDs.
Much of what he teaches is lifted from Alan Peters, seemingly a big inspiration in Rob's life, although he very rarely even mentions Peters nowadays. Some of his other stuff is strikingly similar to what other people have taught for a while too, although he does occasionally credit them (such as the Charlesworth Ruler trick).
Generally though, whatever he's showing tends to be designed for showcasing whatever tools he's selling... and if there's no tool, there's usually a shortcut accessory or jig or something. He does achieve consistent, perfect results first time, every time, straight off the saw, but it seems that's only if you buy the tools and guides he's designed to enable this!

Rather, I'd suggest someone like Paul Sellers, who sometimes has a similar approach, but he actually shows you how to make your own accessories... and usually for a few pennies, rather than 90 Bucks at a time!
James Wright (Google for Wood By Wright) is another favourite, who started off being a professional woodworker with power tools and since became a stay-at-home Dad doing hand-tool woodworking. Very happy, down-to-Earth kind of guy and very newbie-friendly.

Wonky worrel... do what you will, but dont rule out power tools 8) 8)

Don't rule them out, but also be aware that some of them can be very expensive!!
A basic drill or maybe a router might be had for cheap, but things like bandsaws and planers/thicknessers are where the pretty starts getting pricey!
I say this as a previously devoted power tool user myself, by the way.

I'd encourage you to use hand tools and dovetails. I made a dovetail box in a 5 week evening class run by Matt Estlea - never done one dovetail before that.

Matt is another one to watch on YouTube - Quite a young fella and a bit of a dynamic dude, but a lot of what he shows/teaches rings true and makes sense. I think he's got a good, balanced mix of power and hand tooling options going on, so great for a dual perspective.

I'd avoid oak at first, and go with poplar, which I think is pretty much the best beginner wood there is.

After working in pine/cack CLS wood from a timber shop, I found oak was actually quite nice. Better than I expected. Not used poplar yet, but I'll bear that in mind for myself...

I was planning on only using a trademen cutting frame, but i need a proper work bench, perhaps this should be my first project!

Heck yeah!!
Again, Paul Sellers is one of the go-to resources on workbenches these days, as he has two different video builds on Youtube - The older one is quite large and very traditional for 'proper' woodworking in a workshop, while the newer one is designed more for a smaller space where a garage-based hobbyist (ie his main audience) tends to find themselves.
I'd suggest watching both sets of videos, as there are differences between the two benches - But both benches can be altered to whatever dimensions you want and the various different features can be mixed and matched, if you like. The basic design is also very easy to adapt and modify, even to alter down the line, and it works with a variety of different wood, including recycled bits and pieces.

He's not the only video resource, obviously, but for newbies he's very good for clear, simple and cheap advice and demonstrations of stuff. Gives you a firm grounding from which to look at other works, and a measure of confidence from which to gain confirmation when you see something similar being affirmed by others.