Festive switch wiring help gratefully received!

[Deadeye]

I got a heap of fixer upper planer to coax back to utility whilst my broken elbow heals.
It's 3PH and I have an ordinary domestic supply. So I've got an inverter, which I've tested on the motor (now wired to low voltage) and that's all fine.

It came with a rather fine 400V/3PH on/off switch. This - Can you use a 3 phase on/off switch with single phase power? - suggests that I can re-use the switch, but I am having trouble interpreting the diagrams in the light odf what I see in my box (picture below if I've done it properly). I suspect it's either trivial or impossible. If the latter, it'd be good to know! If the former, can someone tell me which wires to put where?

I'll have twin and earth coming in and out as I want the invert inside the box and hence downstream (and I know killing supply to the inverter is viewed dimly, but it has a setting that seems ready made for that and works fine in this arrangement on my other machine).

Do I just put L and N into L1 and L2 and take live and N to my invert out of the bottom T1 and T2? Where does the earth go? It's connected to the lid currently.

Much festive appreciation in anticipation!

 

[baldkev]

Im useless with wiring, but @Myfordman may well know,he's a whizz with motors.... @deema and @Sideways are also extremely knowledgeable

 

[sawtooth-9]

You may be able to use the 3 phase DOL with single phase, but that will depend on the voltage requirements of the coil.
Usually 3 phase DOL starters use a 240 volt coil, which is picked up between one phase and neutral, so you would need to identify the wires going to the coil and connect the live to whichever of the three contactors you choose for running the circuit.
Suggest you also look at the overload setting - this may limit whether you can use the 3 phase DOL as a single phase
As above, I am sure deema and Sideways can offer you better info than me.

 

[Spectric]

If you have an invertor then there should be no switch between the invertor output and the motor, the invertor should never run without a load. This is why invertors only power one machine whilst digital phase convertors can power three phase distribution. There should be an isolator on the single phase 230 volt input and you can turn your motor on / off on the invertor and adjust it's speed. You will need to setup some parameters in the invertor for overload / protection etc etc but a lot depends on if it is a quality brand or some asian import.

 

[Deadeye]

If you have an invertor then there should be no switch between the invertor output and the motor, the invertor should never run without a load. This is why invertors only power one machine whilst digital phase convertors can power three phase distribution. There should be an isolator on the single phase 230 volt input and you can turn your motor on / off on the invertor and adjust it's speed. You will need to setup some parameters in the invertor for overload / protection etc etc but a lot depends on if it is a quality brand or some asian import.

Thanks everyone.
I'm proposing having the switch upstream of the inverter.
The inverter has a setting that allows it to go into a start cycle as soon as current applied...and obviously stops once the power is removed. It's connected directly to the motor.
Before that I want an on/off and wa shoping to just use the existing box (as it's drilled/tapped in position). If I can't I'll just add a 240V on/off with one of those emergency flaps - which is the setup I have on the other machine.

 

[Deadeye]

You may be able to use the 3 phase DOL with single phase, but that will depend on the voltage requirements of the coil.
Usually 3 phase DOL starters use a 240 volt coil, which is picked up between one phase and neutral, so you would need to identify the wires going to the coil and connect the live to whichever of the three contactors you choose for running the circuit.
Suggest you also look at the overload setting - this may limit whether you can use the 3 phase DOL as a single phase
As above, I am sure deema and Sideways can offer you better info than me.

Thanks! Hmmm...what's the jeopardy of having a go? If it's just it doesn't work then I'll have a go. If it may fry the motor or inverter, then I'll play shy.

 

[Myfordman]

There is no place for a DOL upstream of an inverter. A simple isolator if you must but a standard plug and switched socket is all you need. The inverter provided NVR function and far more overload protection than a DOL ever would.

 

[sawtooth-9]

There is no place for a DOL upstream of an inverter. A simple isolator if you must but a standard plug and switched socket is all you need. The inverter provided NVR function and far more overload protection than a DOL ever would.

Myfordman, you are quite right - I neglected to think about the inverter

 

[Spectric]

You would not run a HiFi amplifier without the speakers connected and running an invertor without a load is the same, you can destroy the output drivers.

 

[Deadeye]

You would not run a HiFi amplifier without the speakers connected and running an invertor without a load is the same, you can destroy the output drivers.

Yes.
But that's not what I'm doing! At least, I don't think so!
I just want to reuse the green and red on/off switch that are already on the outside. That enables me to put the inverter inside. have I got the term "upstream" wrong? I mean nearer the plug and further form the motor.
I have motor--directly to inverter--socket. I want to put a switch in between the socket and the inverter, so motor---inverter--switch---socket. The inverter has a mode that will start the motor as soon as it receives power (i.e. when the switch is closed). My qustion was simply if I could re-use the big switch I have by re-wiring it into a twin-and earth supply from a regular 3-pin plug, or if I had to get an ordinary switch, and if I cna re-use it, how to wire it (per the photo)
I can't see how what I'm proposing is any different to the switch on the wall socket, other than being by the machine. I trying to find out how to wire the big green/red button box to do it's on/off on a single phase supply!
:¬)

 

[Spectric]

I just want to reuse the green and red on/off switch that are already on the outside.

This two button switch is a direct online starter (DOL), when you push the green button it energises the coil which pulls in the contactors and it runs, pushing the red button which is a normally closed contact breaks the coil circuit and the contacts drop out so stopping the machine. The correct way to wire such a system is a fused isolator then invertor which is hardwired to the machine motor with no means of disconnection, ie plug and socket. I have never used any invertor where the on/off function has not been on the actual invertor or a switch wired from the invertor, so invertor is powered up even when machine not running. You do not want the DOL in your circuit, it contains a thermal overload device which is not needed. What make and model of invertor are you using? It might have the ability for remote switching.

With some DOL's like Telemecanique it can be possible to replace the normally open momentary switch with a click on / click off but this would mean you use the green button for on and off, but this is not how an invertor should be used. Also don't forget invertors need air for cooling and you don't want dust ingress as this will cause them to overheat.

 

[Myfordman]

Look in your inverter manual for “3 wire control” if it supports this then install the inverter on the wall above the line of fire of dust sources and us one power cable down to the motor and a second one from the start and stop switches (only) back to the inverters digital inputs. Do not use any of the rest of the DOL just the buttons.
Never install an inverter where you can’t see the display/any error messages.

 

[Deadeye]

Look in your inverter manual for “3 wire control” if it supports this then install the inverter on the wall above the line of fire of dust sources and us one power cable down to the motor and a second one from the start and stop switches (only) back to the inverters digital inputs. Do not use any of the rest of the DOL just the buttons.
Never install an inverter where you can’t see the display/any error messages.

Thanks for this, particularly the last point. I'd imagined that putting it inside the void of the machine was good because sheltered from dust etc. but can see the logic about seeing problems.
I'll wall mount.
Thanks again everyone
:~)