Faulty Lie Nielsen chisel!!

[Taffy Turner]

At the risk of poking my nose in here, I think that Jacob does have a point, but I would question his way of getting it across!

Gary

 

[mr]

I get tired of the often repeated message that only LN, LV are any good and everything else is rubbish. It's not true and a lot of people esp newbies are being misled.

You have a point, though I think it's worth pointing out that, in my own case, I was unable to fettle cheaper brands and even sharpen properly until I had used an LV plane mainly because I had no idea of what an acceptable standard was. Without a reference point I found it difficult to know whether I had set tools up to their maximum capability or sharpness. Trial and error or a course might well have been a shortcut but using a higher end tool that was "preprepared" to some extent was a great help.
Cheers Mike

 

[Anonymous]

I get tired of the often repeated message that only LN, LV are any good and everything else is rubbish. It's not true and a lot of people esp newbies are being misled.

That is a point I strongly agree with and have made myself on here many times.

LN/LV make better quality ttools, but that does not make the rest rubbish or inadequate in some way

 

[Ian Dalziel]

Jacob,
Newbies ask for opinions here on certain tools....whats best to buy for the money…they get answers more often than not ‘buy LN or LV’ because they work very well out the box. Others don’t…they need a fair bit of work to get them to function the way a plane should work….. Some newbies don’t have the yet aquired skills to make them functional…this comes with eventual experience.
hence all the recommendations.

I’ve just spent £229 on the LN mortice chisel set……you’ve repeatedly said in this post they are bad….you now have me concerned. I take it with your set you are really disappointed with them….in a case like yours LN would probably replace them if you are not entirely satisfied.
Just wondering what your concerns are…..are they not flat….or suitable for the job…have you broken a handle, please enlighten me as I am looking forward to using mine and I want to know if mine have the same problems as yours.

I

 

[engineer one]

to be pedantic, if something is judged to be of better quality,
by definition, it implies the rest is of a lesser standard.

from the beginning one is told to buy the best one can afford.
as others have said here, if you do not know how a good tool should
be set up, then there is a benefit to buying at least one of the best
of each type, to see how they are made, and how they are set up.

the facts are that many of the international name brands no longer
produce the tools that they were famous for, and their production
values have slipped to allow them to make more money, not
provide the best tool for the money.

what is important is not just the quality of the blades, or the fact that
almost none of the modern cast iron mass produced planes have their
plane bodies "seasoned" for anything like the same time as in the
past. the time between casting and machining is no longer long
enough to let the castings settle properly before they are machined.
what is different is that the adjusters and ancilliaries are made of
cheap pressings which cannot properly be adjusted, and do not
hold their positions properly.

anyone buying a none lv/ln, or indeed clifton will find that out of the
box it is a pita to use, whereas in general, the three above can work
out of the box, or at the most with a fine honing to remove any
wire edge. this quality costs more, but if you are prepared, and
able to fettle other products then they eventually become
reasonable. the question is how many newer woodworkers have
actually been shown the skills required to fettle?

it is very easy to read about sharpening, but actually doing it is
easier if you are shown it personally. i am sure that dc's videos help
too, if they are anything like his personal approach on a one to one
basis.

so the real reason so many people like ln/lv and clifton is that
the preparitary work is basically done, and they can start out
of the box.

we are talking about management philosphies. major manufacturers
are only concerned with profit margins based on squeezing the most
out of cash cows, whilst the others want to produce better products
and hope they will find exacting customers who believe as they do.
once they do that they are then able to make sensible profits.

anyway that's my take, but then i am awkward :twisted: :lol:

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Jacob,
Newbies ask for opinions here on certain tools....whats best to buy for the money…they get answers more often than not ‘buy LN or LV’ because they work very well out the box. Others don’t…they need a fair bit of work to get them to function the way a plane should work….. Some newbies don’t have the yet aquired skills to make them functional…this comes with eventual experience.
hence all the recommendations.

I’ve just spent £229 on the LN mortice chisel set……you’ve repeatedly said in this post they are bad….you now have me concerned. I take it with your set you are really disappointed with them….in a case like yours LN would probably replace them if you are not entirely satisfied.
Just wondering what your concerns are…..are they not flat….or suitable for the job…have you broken a handle, please enlighten me as I am looking forward to using mine and I want to know if mine have the same problems as yours.

I

I'm sure they'll be OK but the trad 'pig sticker' pattern is far superior. See earlier thread somewhere.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Anonymous]

snip
Jacob, you don't see the point of LN or LV tools. Well, I used my fettled Record #4 at the weekend and then my LN LA smoother (same size more-or-less) - I clearly see the point.

Well I've never knowingly fettled any of my hand tools ancient or modern - I sharpen them, use them, occasionally apply candle wax, er, thats it. The flat back thing comes about inevitably as the blade is turned over flat to take off the honing wire edge burr wossit called.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Ian Dalziel]

I'm sure they'll be OK but the trad 'pig sticker' pattern is far superior. See earlier thread somewhere.

possibly so......but at the very least try them before you publicly condemn them to being useless.

I

 

[Jake]

It's a design issue, not a manufacturing issue, so I don't see why use or ownership is necessary before one is allowed to have an opinion on the subject.

 

[CONGER]

Hard to hold back here... the only civil thing I can say is 'there's one in every bunch'.

I am surprised that this community has produced such a thread; it is beginning to match the disgusting, almost racist, witch hunts offered on WC... remember Derek?

I am closing this thread for myself under the motto 'there are none so blind as those who will not see'.

Work safe... -gerard-

 

[ike]

I am surprised that this community has produced such a thread; it is beginning to match the disgusting, almost racist, witch hunts offered on WC

Wow! as opinions have gone so far in this thread, that's the strongest so far. (and IMO unwarranted)! I've followed this thread with interest. Argument and counter argument, each to their own view whether expressed eloquently or bluntly. Jacob has said (simply) what he believes as has Tony. I haven't read any bad language, or indeed anything that could be taken as offensive.

cheers,

Ike

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sure they'll be OK but the trad 'pig sticker' pattern is far superior. See earlier thread somewhere.

possibly so......but at the very least try them before you publicly condemn them to being useless.

I

Have used pig stickers (old ones, no brand) extensively. Have also used modern pattern not unlike LN type (actually Marples). I'm just expressing a preference for a design. IME the first are much superior - the reasons why are expanded in an earlier thread if you search.
I just looked back through this thread and for having a different opinion I have been called; a troll, holder of bizarre views, green-eyed monster, tedious nerk, jealous twit, Nay-sayer, narrow-minded, racist, witch hunter!!!
Well, as for holy ground and hysterical groupies - Q.E.D.
I've been called worse (no surprise I hear you cry). My response is 2 fingers. I'm waving them now!
I recall that Ashley Isles makes proper pig sticker mortice chisels and I bet they are a lot cheaper than LN.
I claim my free chisel Ashley.
Don't Clifton have a representative on this group? Nobody speaks up for them much. Could be a job there.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Alf]

On a point of order, I'd like to mention I was asking you to not become a tedious nerk.

My response is 2 fingers. I'm waving them now!

Perhaps less finger waving and more stopping to think why, on a forum where name-calling is very much the exception, you've apparently drawn quite so much. For me, the last straw was Philly asking you to make your point in italics. Philly is, as a rule, so laid back as to be horizontal and this is the equivalent of me having a prolonged rant. When you start making him visibly irritated it's time to stop. The mild ones are always worst when they're riled... 8-[

Cheers, Alf

 

[ike]

Ike wrote:

I haven't read any bad language, or indeed anything that could be taken as offensive.

Jacob wrote,

I just looked back through this thread and for having a different opinion I have been called; a troll, holder of bizarre views, green-eyed monster, tedious nerk, jealous twit, Nay-sayer, narrow-minded, racist, witch hunter!!!

Well, you do have a point! I'll retract my statement. I'm surprised a moderator didn't see fit to wave the yellow card.

cheers,

Ike

 

[David C]

Steady on chaps!

Not quite as hot as WC yet but getting close.

I find the deliberate attempts to wind up other members by the use of infantile/childish sarcasm, highly questionable.

Respect for others regardless of the oddity of their views, (if stated reasonably)?

David C

 

[Anonymous]

OK

Mod hat on.

I think all that has to be said has been said.

Please don't force me to lock my own thread.

 

[Mike.C]

Maybe it's just me but I do not see the problem.

(1) LN, IMHO should get a pat on the back for dealing with the problem in such a positive manner.
Why?
Well first of all they are quite within their rights to tell Tony to get on his bike and contact Axminster, because in UK law if he purchased the chisel from Axminster (he did didn't he?) his contract is with them and not with LN. All right we know that most companies will deal with the customer as a matter of good will, but they do not have too, especially as they are not bound by UK laws.

(2) Jacob is right a great deal of outer companies would replace the chisel, but the real fact is most of them including Axminster would very well have asked Tony to send the chisel back before they replaced it.

So it is my view that yes it is no surprise that LN replaced the chisel, but where they come out top is, not only did they replace it they also let him keep a chisel that with a bit of work will be every bit as good as the new
one.

Cheers

Mike

EDIT Sorry Tony I did not see your post.

 

[Anonymous]

from Axminster (he did didn't he?)
.

He did indeed.

EDIT Sorry Tony I did not see your post

no problem mike.

 

[Mike.C]

Cheers Tony.

Have you received the new chisel yet and if so is it any better?

Mike

 

[Noel]

Steady on chaps!

Not quite as hot as WC yet but getting close.

I find the deliberate attempts to wind up other members by the use of infantile/childish sarcasm, highly questionable.

Respect for others regardless of the oddity of their views, (if stated reasonably)?

David C

I agree. I've only just read this thread and it's sad to see that some members, new and longstanding, who ought to have more sense and a modicum of civility should resort to name calling and other childish behaviour.
If you do have to address an opinion that is contrary to your own views please do so in a civil and, dare I say it, adult manner. Otherwise move on.
We've all built and maintained a friendly and helpful community here so please have some respect for fellow members.

Regards

Noel.
Edit, I didn't see Tony's post either but I'm sure he'll agree with the above.
Let's get back to woodworking please.

Edit: Tony
Absolutely!