Absolutely right - the key word being 'some'. Why limit gate options for the sake of a piece of conduit and a post or two? And yes the internal sensors are optional - but so is a wireless intercom, remote opening, keypad, fob opening, flashing lights.... but putting some of those things in afterward will cost more, whilst thinking ahead costs nothing.
Electric Drive Gates opener
- Thread starter MARK.B.
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Just curious how far away will the gate work from the box? My driveway is 270'/82m long.
Pete
PerryGunn
Established Member
Haven't got a clue - not many people in the UK with a driveway that long...
I dare say that, if I was fortunate enough to have a driveway of that length, I'd have built a sentry box down by the gates - then my ex-SAS security guards would have somewhere to stay warm whilst they wait to open the gates for authorised vehicles
Probably best to run mains to the box next to the gates at that distance. (I don't understand how a quality box fails to be weatherproof in a short period). My run of just over 50m wouldn't run a 12v bell, or wired intercom - but 240v to my control box right next to the gates suffers no such problem.
Bod
Established Member
12v over that length, you would be getting “Voltage Drop” in effect electricity cannot pass easily over long distances without losing voltage.
12v/50m would probably lose 5 volts. Strangely 240v/50m would only lose the same 5 volts, but would have less effect.
Hence the National Grid pylons running at 400,000 volts.
There is a formula for calculating voltage drop, thicker cables = less drop.
Bod
Peterm1000
Guest
On both systems I had, the control box also houses the remote control system. I guess it depends how far away the garage is, but logically you want to be able to activate it from as far away as you can when you are driving towards the house (so the gates are open when you arrive ) but when you go through, it doesn't matter so much.
As others have said, there are loads of options available that will govern what electrical connections you need. But with all the systems I saw, the instructions are pretty straightforward for someone technically minded.
) but when you go through, it doesn't matter so much.As others have said, there are loads of options available that will govern what electrical connections you need. But with all the systems I saw, the instructions are pretty straightforward for someone technically minded.
Absolutely right - hence my recommendation for 240v to the gate. (IIRC I was getting was about 8 volts over that distance when I tried it - so your calc is pretty darn close.) Voltage drop will also be affected by the wire diameter, hence using larger SWA for long runs (And larger again?) if burying it.
Then consider anything else that might be useful that far from the house - weatherproof socket, courtesy light, video camera, oh the list goes on...
woodwind
Established Member
We have a rule that the gates are not to be operated unless we can eyeball them.On both systems I had, the control box also houses the remote control system. I guess it depends how far away the garage is, but logically you want to be able to activate it from as far away as you can when you are driving towards the house (so the gates are open when you arrive
As others have said, there are loads of options available that will govern what electrical connections you need. But with all the systems I saw, the instructions are pretty straightforward for someone technically minded.
MARK.B.
Established Member
All good and useful information thank you all
Considering a 24 volt system but unsure if this would be suitable over a 40 Metre run using a plug in 24V transformer and what size/ type of cable would be suitable for that distance. Any advice on that would be most welcome.
Considering a 24 volt system but unsure if this would be suitable over a 40 Metre run using a plug in 24V transformer and what size/ type of cable would be suitable for that distance. Any advice on that would be most welcome.
PerryGunn
Established Member
I thought the 24v systems still connect to 240v power and it's the gate motors that are 24v and are powered from the control board.All good and useful information thank you all
Considering a 24 volt system but unsure if this would be suitable over a 40 Metre run using a plug in 24V transformer and what size/ type of cable would be suitable for that distance. Any advice on that would be most welcome.
From what I read, I think that the only real benefit of the 24v systems is regarding the duty cycle as the 24v motors generate less heat and can cope with more opening/closing cycles per hour - unlikely to be an issue with domestic use.
Peterm1000
Guest
Correct. They all have 240v to the main controller box
MorrisWoodman12
Established Member
For a given power level if the voltage is reduced then the current has to increase to compensate. For example 100 Watts at 12V (Power (P) = Voltage (V) * Current (I)) the current is 8,3Amps. At 240V the current reduces to 0,42Amps. Since the cable voltage drop is from Ohms Law V = I*R then as the resistance, R, remains the same (for the example) then the voltage drop is 20 times less in the 240V situation. However you could use a lighter cable for 240V (hence still a 5V drop) and a 5V drop is 'negligible' in 240V.
Martin
MARK.B.
Established Member
Thank you for that info perry and peterm ,Armored 240v cable it is then . What size cable do you recommend given there will be slight drop in voltage over a 40 Metre run
PerryGunn
Established Member
For the gate rams, my Quiko installation manual recommended 1.5mm cable for up to 30m, 2.5mm > 30m (both 4-core). There's probably a distance limit for 2.5mm but it's not in the manual.Thank you for that info perry and peterm ,Armored 240v cable it is then . What size cable do you recommend given there will be slight drop in voltage over a 40 Metre run
Whatever system you go for may have different requirements so I'd echo some of the previous comments and say put in conduit/pipes with plenty of draw cords - it's cheap stuff and could be a godsend further down the line.
MARK.B.
Established Member
Thank's perry, you may be right, i think i will reconsider and use conduit as well,an extra 50 quid or so now is neither here or there and as you say could well prove useful later
May I recommend you speak to an electrician that will be connecting it up to the mains. (You aren't actually 'allowed' to do that part yourself, unless you 'plug it in' which would look really nasty.) They will be able to calculate the right size cable for you - it will vary on buried, in conduit, overground, distance, load and probably a few things I've forgotten. You really don't need conduit for the SWA - just everything else!
You can do all the rest of the wiring though - none of it is rocket science.
You can do all the rest of the wiring though - none of it is rocket science.
NetBlindPaul
Established Member
Please also be aware of the other design constraints on the cable size, current carrying capacity is related to the circuit protective device rating, the volt drop is governed by BS7671, this volt drop also has a bearing on the cable size. Then there is the fault loop impedance for safety to consider.
Also, you should be aware that the supply cable and its installation is considered construction and falls under building regulations and BS7671, whereas the automated gates fall under the Supply of Machinery Safety Regulations, a lot of electrical contractors are not aware of the requirements of the machinery standards and legislation, also they are likely not insured for such work.
The safety function of the gates is critical, following several high profile deaths HSE have been looking at the gate automation sector and if you are paying for the work, for your own benefit please ensure that you have competent contractors.
Finally if you DIY, whilst some of the legislation does not apply, building regulations being an obvious exclusion, please ensure that the equipment is installed and commissioned correctly because it could be one of your friends or loved ones who gets maimed or killed if the safety measures are not correct.
Also, you should be aware that the supply cable and its installation is considered construction and falls under building regulations and BS7671, whereas the automated gates fall under the Supply of Machinery Safety Regulations, a lot of electrical contractors are not aware of the requirements of the machinery standards and legislation, also they are likely not insured for such work.
The safety function of the gates is critical, following several high profile deaths HSE have been looking at the gate automation sector and if you are paying for the work, for your own benefit please ensure that you have competent contractors.
Finally if you DIY, whilst some of the legislation does not apply, building regulations being an obvious exclusion, please ensure that the equipment is installed and commissioned correctly because it could be one of your friends or loved ones who gets maimed or killed if the safety measures are not correct.
Inspector said:
Just curious how far away will the gate work from the box? My driveway is 270'/82m long.
Mine is about 400m, and 240v will get to the end OK. Electric gates use a surprisingly small amount of electrical power, but your sparkie will still want to choose the cable capacity. Best to put in a conduit and let them choose & pull it. Inspector, I assume you're on 120V, so voltage drop will be even more of an issue over there!
As NetBlindPaul says, electric gates really can be dangerous- strong enough to crush/kill a dog/child, or badly damage a car, so there are more regulations/factors to take into account that on first sight.
The real question: iroko or pine?!
Just curious how far away will the gate work from the box? My driveway is 270'/82m long.
Mine is about 400m, and 240v will get to the end OK. Electric gates use a surprisingly small amount of electrical power, but your sparkie will still want to choose the cable capacity. Best to put in a conduit and let them choose & pull it. Inspector, I assume you're on 120V, so voltage drop will be even more of an issue over there!
As NetBlindPaul says, electric gates really can be dangerous- strong enough to crush/kill a dog/child, or badly damage a car, so there are more regulations/factors to take into account that on first sight.
The real question: iroko or pine?!
MARK.B.
Established Member
All good advice regarding safety concerns, i plan on doing all the work myself and will get a suitably qualified person to sign off and make the final connection to the fuse box,as we are in no great rush to fit a system just yet i will lay conduit where needed and then the cables can be pulled though as and when required. My Wife tells me the money is better off wherever she has it stashed away until a final decision on the actual gates is made as the finished weight will be a factor in what opening system we choose , of course i could always ignore her advice but then again i am not that brave
but then again i am not that brave Peterm1000
Guest
Some electric gates can be dangerous. That is true. In particular, I think if the gate closes against a full height stop (as would be the case with sliding gates) I can see how someone can get crushed. However on my swing gates, I don't see how that could be possible. One gate closes and the other follows 10 seconds later. They close against a small metal stop that is about 1 inch high and have open limiters built into the rams. If you push against the gates while they are moving, they stop - I think you only need something like 20 kg of force to stop them. Where people have been killed, they are all older commercial gate systems without the safety systems built into modern domestic systems (I think).
As to the connection, I wired mine up very temporarily to a 13amp plug and then got an electrician to connect that to the domestic supply. I forget what armoured cable thickness was used.
Good luck with the install. I don't think you will have issues and will save yourself hundreds by doing yourself.
