Drawer Lock Joint Help!

[PeteG]

The more time I spend in my shed the less I seem to know. I've spent nearly all afternoon trying to create one lock joint without success. I started with a zero tolerance fence and thought everything was going OK, that was until I tried setting everything else up. I re-adjusted the cutter so many times going through a pile of off cuts, I ended up completely baffled by the hole thing and gave up.
In the sample images I used 18mm MDF, although the draw I need to make I'll be using 1 inch red wood. The red wood samples I used were almost torn apart...The cutter was part of a set I bought last year from Rutlands, and it's 2"...Does anyone have an idiot proof step by step for making a drawer lock joint?

 

[Glynne]

Hi again Pete.
I posted using a Wealden's corner lock cutter a week or so ago but your Rutland's one seems to have a different profile. Usually once you've set it up to give you the rebates on your vertical piece, you should be able to rout the second piece horizontally without changing either the cutter height or the fence. Ron Fox has a video on using a Wealden's cutter (which is different o mine) and this maybe similar to yours.
Did you cutter come from the door and drawer making set (6piece). If so let me know. I have a set which I have never used so I can always have a play and see if it is the same principle.

 

[Steve Maskery]

From the photos it seems to me that you have two errors.

The cutter is too high by half the amount it doesn't fit.

The cutter is too exposed from the fence by the size of the overlap.

I used to have one of those, a different profile, but that was a pain to set up as well. Once you get it right, save a scrap for setting it up next time.
S

 

[PeteG]

Hi again Pete.
I posted using a Wealden's corner lock cutter a week or so ago but your Rutland's one seems to have a different profile. Usually once you've set it up to give you the rebates on your vertical piece, you should be able to rout the second piece horizontally without changing either the cutter height or the fence. Ron Fox has a video on using a Wealden's cutter (which is different o mine) and this maybe similar to yours.
Did you cutter come from the door and drawer making set (6piece). If so let me know. I have a set which I have never used so I can always have a play and see if it is the same principle.

Hello again Glynne Yes, it's from the Rutlands Complete Door & Drawer Making Set. I too thought it was a case of once set for one cut, it would be right for the second. I was even at the point of thinking I had the wrong thickness of timber for the cutter. If you have a play it would be much appreciated.

From the photos it seems to me that you have two errors.

The cutter is too high by half the amount it doesn't fit.

The cutter is too exposed from the fence by the size of the overlap.

I used to have one of those, a different profile, but that was a pain to set up as well. Once you get it right, save a scrap for setting it up next time.
S

Hello Steve. I set the cutter for the side piece which would pass in the vertical position to the depth of the cutters tooth, hope that makes sense. For the second piece, I put the sample against the fence, then moved the fence until the sample and cutter were level...I also tried a few ways, and can't actually remember all now!

 

[Ghengis]

Maybe this might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QmzxKb ... e=youtu.be

 

[deema]

The cutters too high.
Think of the cutter as an inverted top hat.
Quick setup suggestion. Place a scrap board flat on the table, raise the cutter so that the brim of the hat rebate fully cuts without the body of the hat starting to cut. You should initial have a single rebate created by the entire cutting surface of the hat rim on the entire edge of the board. Now turn the scrap piece of wood through 90 degrees, raise the cutter so that the rim of the hat makes a cut above the initial rebate created on the side. Lower the cutter until the two rebates created by the rim just coincide. Your cutter is now set at the right height.

Adjust the fence to create the depth of cut for the width of boards being cut.

 

[Glynne]

Pete, if it is any consolation it took me a while to figure out. I think I understand what Deema is saying but it is very difficult to explain. I actually had to measure the cutter's dimensions, the thickness of my wood and sit down with a piece of paper to work it out. It didn't help that Wealden's diagram of the joint was more of a half lap type which I eventually worked out was down to a certain thickness of timber.
Despite being in credit with Brownie points, I'm going to have to go shopping this morning but I'll have a look later today.

 

[Glynne]

Hi Pete - people will start to talk about us at this rate.

Anyway I managed to have a play and sorted it.
Some slight difference between the cutters, Rutlands in blue against the Wealden's one. Poor picture but as you know, the Rutlands one has a sloping edge which threw me for a while.

Just to show it does work, joints in both 18mm and 12mm MDF

And an attempt at an explanation as to how you can work the setting out. Firstly the joint goes together as: -

Hopefully you can read the notes but the point is that some dimensions are fixed due to the cutter, and others have to be the same size for the joint to fit together.

The stock as you would rout on your table: -

Hopefully you can see that for any particular cutter, the height should be fixed for both pieces.

Finally the fence setting. It would be easier to show on the Wealdens cutter but again you should get a reasonable idea: -

So forgetting all of the jargon, try your cutter at a height of 9mm, set you fence to half the width of your stock and then gradually (very) increase until you get an exact fit. Let me know how you get on.

 

[deema]

Sorry for the poor explanation, this may help. The lock is created by a tongue and groove. The thickness if the tongue and groove must be the same for the joint to work. The part of the cutter that makes the groove must be set to be exactly twice the heigh of the width of the groove it makes. This dimension is irrespective of the wood you are using. If I could use a sketching program I would drop you a picture.

To setup the cutter mapeasure the groove width created and then set the very top of the cutter from the bed to be twice this distance.

There will only a one sweat spot where it all goes together.

 

[PeteG]

I really appreciate the help gentlemen and below is the result of your advice. I'm a very happy and less frustrated man!

I first set the height of the cutter to 9mm.



I then set the fence to 9mm, half the thickness of the MDF.



The result. Not perfect but as you can see, but the actual joints are nice and tight in comparison to my attempts yesterday.



I then measured the shoulder which was 5mm, and added this to the fence setting of 9mm [half the thickness of the MDF]



I re-set the fence to 14mm and made one pass with the face piece.



And here's the result



So if I understand this correctly, the height of the cutter is set to 9mm regardless to thickness of material, if I'm using 18mm thick material the fence is always set to 14mm unless the drawer face is overlapping?

 

[Glynne]

Or you can reset the fence by 2.5mm and run both pieces through again which should give a more even joint - but that's just me being pernickety! Now you've got the height setting sorted and can use half the stock thickness as a starting point, you can adjust to whatever you want. I tend to have the piece of end grain protruding slightly so I can plane this off flush.
I should have said that the measurements I quoted were just off a rule rather than anything more precise but it seems to have worked.
We'll wait for you to post the finished drawer / box.
Cheers.

 

[PeteG]

Or you can reset the fence by 2.5mm and run both pieces through again which should give a more even joint - but that's just me being pernickety! Now you've got the height setting sorted and can use half the stock thickness as a starting point, you can adjust to whatever you want. I tend to have the piece of end grain protruding slightly so I can plane this off flush.
I should have said that the measurements I quoted were just off a rule rather than anything more precise but it seems to have worked.
We'll wait for you to post the finished drawer / box.
Cheers.

Hello Glynne. Everything is much clearer today. Did my head in yesterday trying to work it out! The drawer I'm planning is probably best described as a large box that will fit under the bench on runners. I'm making the drawer/box out of 3 x 1 inch redwood, which I want to tongue and groove first, something else I haven't done before! To hide the runners I no doubt need to make the drawer face overlapping, so I may be in the shed for some time, or back here quite soon :wink:

 

[siggy_7]

In your final image, it looks like the joint isn't quite going together - if this is the case, the joint is too tight and the cutter needs to come up a touch. As you have now identified, the key to the joint fit is to determine the precise cutter height that produces a snug joint - which is invariant of the stock thickness or any other aspect of the joint. From there, the fence position controls the alignment of the two pieces and is adjusted for thickness / whether you have a square-edged drawer or recessed drawer sides. Happy routing!

 

[PeteG]

In your final image, it looks like the joint isn't quite going together - if this is the case, the joint is too tight and the cutter needs to come up a touch. As you have now identified, the key to the joint fit is to determine the precise cutter height that produces a snug joint - which is invariant of the stock thickness or any other aspect of the joint. From there, the fence position controls the alignment of the two pieces and is adjusted for thickness / whether you have a square-edged drawer or recessed drawer sides. Happy routing!

Hello Siggy. When the test piece wasn't laying down, it was quite a snug fit with a small overhang on the end. I'll be carrying out a couple more test cuts before I use it in anger I'm trying to crack
problems with tongue and groove cutters at the moment before everything comes together. All this for one drawer, should have stuck to 3/4" ply and pocket holes!

 

[marcros]

Worth checking the thickness of your mdf if it is critical- it apparently has a habit of changing slightly between batches, manufacturers etc. I have never done so- never needed to but I have read the warnings!

 

[Glynne]

Thanks Mark. For some strange reason I've always taken the thickness of MDF as being a given - no idea why and on retrospect a bit naive but you live and learn. Calliper out next time as I have both new and some very old off-cuts of MDF!