Drain advice needed please.

[powertools]

We own a small terraced cottage that is let out. The cottage next door is end of terrace and has been purchased by a "builder" who lives in it but is doing extensive modernisation. The cottages are 120 years old and as was the way in those days there is a back yard area across the row the drain for this area is behind the next door cottage.
Today we have been round to inspect our cottage and it has become apparent that the neighbour has paved over the yard area behind his cottage and over the drain. Our tenant informs us that the yard area behind our cottage now floods and she has to lift the manhole cover for the sewage and sweep the water down there to avoid having to paddle through 2" of water outside the back door.
Before I speak to him what if anything can I expect him to do about it?
I should point out that this is not likely to go well as about 6 months ago we had to take action against him with regards unauthorised work he started on the party wall.
Any advice before I speak to him would be appreciated.

 

[Grayo]

If you can check the deeds of your property it might say you have a right of use to use that drain. It does on our property where the drain in between our house and the next door neighbour is just inside the neighbours boundary but it states on the deeds that it is a shared drain.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

+1...Our neighbour's man hole cover is at the end of my drive and he has legal access to it (though requires my permission to enter my land which must not be unreasonably withheld)

 

[Woodchips2]

It might be worth having a word with the local authority building control department. I don't think these days they like hard paved areas being provided without adequate drainage :roll: .

Regards Keith

 

[Lons]

It might be worth having a word with the local authority building control department. I don't think these days they like hard paved areas being provided without adequate drainage :roll: .

Regards Keith

Exactly what I would do.
There are strict guidelines on hard paved areas these days and the LA are likely to take a dim view.

Bob

 

[RogerS]

It might be worth having a word with the local authority building control department. I don't think these days they like hard paved areas being provided without adequate drainage :roll: .

Regards Keith

Exactly what I would do.
There are strict guidelines on hard paved areas these days and the LA are likely to take a dim view.

Bob

Sorry but I think you will find that the regulations only apply to front gardens (and not before time IMO)

 

[Eric The Viking]

If it's a communal drain, you have rights. If they've broken the drain (sounds like the tamping work for the paving probably fractured/collapsed it), they're liable, probably also for damages. Any competent builder should know the law about drain runs anyway, as it comes up a lot.

If they feign innocence someone's not being/been honest. I fear this will end in court - they have to fix it and compensate you and/or the tenant. I'm rusty, but I think both of you can sue them on different issues - you for loss of facilities, she for the disruption, etc.

But I am most deffo not a lawyer, and you should probably consult one.

E.

 

[powertools]

Thanks all for the advice. I think I need to do a bit more research before I speak to him.

 

[Altheo]

Can you provide a little more info. It sounds as if you could be describing an open drainage channel rather than a drain. Is this correct ?
If your tenant can sweep the surface water into a manhole, does it flow away or is that blocked ?

 

[blighty1969]

Hi. Not sure if you're referring to an open channel or sewer.

If it is a sewer and connects more than one property to the main public sewer then it may be the responsibility of the local water board as the majority of shared surface water and foul water sewers were transferred to them under the October 2011 transfer regulations.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... egulations

This will give u some more information. Might be worth giving them a call.

There are exceptions (e.g. sewer goes to an open water source) but since u refer to foul water this should not be the case.

Good luck.

 

[Lons]

Sorry but I think you will find that the regulations only apply to front gardens (and not before time IMO)

Quite right Roger - a lapse of thought on my part!

However, if the OPs neighbour has caused a flooding problem and possibly affected the general drainage system the LA could still be very interested especially if it affects any public areas or adopted highway, depends on the view held locally.

I'm busy with an extension for my son and the B.I called to see the bottom of fouds trench today so I asked him and his opinion was same as mine. Off the record of course as not willing to commit professionaly.

People do some strange things. My sons' "new" house is a typical Victorian terraced with a back yard (loads of character and features). The neighbours had a kitchen extension some years ago and the fitters have extracted their cooker hood through the party wall into my sons yard - right in the way of the utility I'm about to build. It will have to be re-directed and the neighbours are nice people so I'll do what I can but should never have happened - bloody cowboys!

Bob

 

[CHJ]

Reading the OP initial post I read the facts as:-

The rear yard area behind the property row had a surface water drainage fall that terminated in the neighbours yard.
That neighbour (the builder) has now raised that yard level with paving and stopped (blocked off) the natural surface water drainage that was provided when the properties were first constructed.

The OP's tenant has to lift a foul water drain cover to get rid of the resultant entrapped surface water.

Personally I think the Neighbour has a duty to either provide access to the original surface water drain/soak-away or make good an alternate facility on the property he is now causing to flood.
Dependant upon how the new yard paving has been installed it may even be contributing to the trapped surface water 'upstream' in OP's property.

 

[powertools]

Chas has summed up the problem very well.
I spoke to building control yesterday and it would seem that even though the surface water has drained away into a drain behind the end terrace for 100 years the owner is within his rights to block this drain as long as he has made provision for his own surface water to drain away which he has.
As with most problems of this type it comes down to it being a civil matter and we could take legal advice but at the end of the day it would seem that we are all responsible for our own surface water and I feel that it may well be the best option and cheaper to put in our own soak away.

 

[RogerS]

I came across this while researching our own 'problem'...it might help.

here is an extract from a metropolitan borough council website."Land drainage is a complex area of responsibility,but in short a landowner is responsible for the drainage of their land.By law a person owning lower level land has to accept natural land drainage water(that is,spring water,ground water or surface run off) from adjacent land at a higher level.This does not apply where the owner of the adjacent land has carried out improvements such that the run off from the land isn't natural.e.g.if the entire garden has been paved over. Natural runoff does not include water from gutter downpipes.

We get a lot of run-off from the adjacent fields and after two large bills to replace the drive that had been washed away/covered with silt we bit the bullet and arranged for a drainage ditch along the lowest part of the drive and two massive pipes to take any runoff underneath the drive and away. In the recent downpours, so satisfying to see the water coming from off the fields and disappearing !

 

[Harbo]

Investigate the subsoil first, because if it's clay, a soakaway will not work? Also check if the foul drain is classed as "Combined" as you might get permission to connect into that especially as you are "land locked"?

Rod

 

[n0legs]

Soakaway is the way to go. I love them.
I've done a few over the years and when we built the last house I dug 4, one for each corner.
We used the preformed concrete rings about 4' diameter, stacked 2 on top of each other sat on beds of hardcore then 40mm stone with a final layer of 20mm stone, all compacted and levelled.
Had the cap stones on top with 2' manholes. Backfilled with lean mix and along with the cesspit here's no waste water and drainage bill .
I liked to watch them fill and slowly drain away ( yes yes sad I know but it's good when a plan comes together, god bless you Hannibal smith). There's something very satisfying being semi self sufficient and not having to rely on dodgy WW/council drains.

 

[powertools]

Soakaway is the way to go. I love them.
I've done a few over the years and when we built the last house I dug 4, one for each corner.
We used the preformed concrete rings about 4' diameter, stacked 2 on top of each other sat on beds of hardcore then 40mm stone with a final layer of 20mm stone, all compacted and levelled.
Had the cap stones on top with 2' manholes. Backfilled with lean mix and along with the cesspit here's no waste water and drainage bill .
I liked to watch them fill and slowly drain away ( yes yes sad I know but it's good when a plan comes together, god bless you Hannibal smith). There's something very satisfying being semi self sufficient and not having to rely on dodgy WW/council drains.

Can't see me falling that much in love with a soakaway that big I can see I may have to start a new thread on how to build one or I may even take the easy option and buy the tenant a wider broom.

 

[Grahamshed]

I may even take the easy option and buy the tenant a wider broom.

There you go. Problem solved.

 

[RogerS]

Soakaway? Soakaway? No.....this is what you need !!

Having had our drive washed away and/or covered in 6 inches of field silt, last year we designed and organised a very large ditch and two massive pipes that run underneath the drive.
Great feeling to see all that water going where we wanted it to go. Mind you, so much water it was touch and go whether the ditch would fill or not.

http://youtu.be/zOzpdLMBbjk

and the two exhaust pipes

http://youtu.be/27nL5vNVmXw

Apologies it's rotated 90 degrees but this is the first time I've tried videoing with the mobile and uploading to youtube.

 

[powertools]

Soakaway? Soakaway? No.....this is what you need !!

Having had our drive washed away and/or covered in 6 inches of field silt, last year we designed and organised a very large ditch and two massive pipes that run underneath the drive.
Great feeling to see all that water going where we wanted it to go. Mind you, so much water it was touch and go whether the ditch would fill or not.

http://youtu.be/zOzpdLMBbjk

and the two exhaust pipes

http://youtu.be/27nL5vNVmXw

Apologies it's rotated 90 degrees but this is the first time I've tried videoing with the mobile and uploading to youtube.

Well i'm glad that I have not got to deal with a problem on that scale it looks that you have done a fantastic job.