Does Anyone Have A Festool KS88E Mitre Saw?

[PeteG]

Hello If you have one, are you happy with it? Have you made any picture type frames and was it perfectly accurate?

 

[custard]

I've used a Kapex for mirror frames and similar jobs. The cut itself is accurate (or it can be adjusted to whatever accuracy you require), but it has three shortcomings for picture/mirror framing work.

1. How do you prevent the workpiece tipping over, flexing down, or breaking out at the rebate? The answer is you have to make a fillet piece that entirely fills the rebate space. Of course that's entirely do-able, but it's a faff, where as a specialist mitring machine like the Morso or dedicated picture frame mitre saws, have adjustable rebate supports built in.

2. The cut is good, especially if you change the blade for a fine cut blade, but it's still not quite as good as a guillotine knife cut like the Morso where the end grain looks glassy after being cut, that has implications for glue strength and glue lines. For really, really critical work you might want to shoot the mitre after cutting on the Kapex.

3. The mitre is only one half of the accuracy equation, the other half is getting each pair of picture/mirror frame "rails" and "stiles" absolutely identical in length. It's surprisingly difficult to line up the previously mitred end of the workpiece against a stop and be accurate to better than 0.1mm, the feather edge at the tip of the mitre can be compressed which is what makes it a tricky job. There's a workaround in that you make supplementary stops which are themselves mitred to receive the mitred end of the workpiece, but it lacks the convenience of dedicated mirror/picture framing machines which have these kind of stops built in, especially as a shop made mitred stop is a little more susceptible to getting saw dust trapped in it which can throw out the accuracy.

So the Kapex is perfectly capable of producing very good mirror/picture frames, I'd give it 9 out of 10 which is plenty good enough for most applications. But you can improve the quality, accuracy and convenience a little bit further with specialist, dedicated equipment.

Good luck!

 

[Adam9453]

Its interesting reading your comments custard, I've looked at both the festool kapex and the dewalt top of the range 12 inch sliding compound mitre saw and I really couldn't find a reason to spend the extra money to get the festool over the dewalt.
What was it that led you to buy the festool machine over the other brands you no doubt considered?

 

[custard]

What was it that led you to buy the festool machine over the other brands you no doubt considered?

I spoke to other furniture makers who's work I knew and respected and were using the machine in ways that were relevant to my applications, the ones with a Kapex rated it higher than the other alternatives. If I was going through the same exercise today there's been a subsequently released Bosch that might win out. But a lot depends on what you're making and how you'll be using it.

In any event, I used the Kapex for several years and was reasonably happy with it (the laser guide needs intermittent adjustment and was never completely accurate at all angles across the full cut length, so it's a guide rather than a precision datum). Nowadays I use a Felder mitring plate that attaches to the sliding table of my saw, like this,

This gives advantages if the stiles and rails are different widths, it can be set with greater accuracy for different angles, plus it's compatible with the dado tooling and spindle moulder that I have so it's the best solution for me when it comes to making angled chair or furniture components. Your mileage may of course vary.

For mirror frames (and every time I sell a piece of furniture I try to add one or two mirrors into the sale) I generally use an old Morso like this,

They may be thirty or forty years old, but there's still hardly anything else out there that cuts a 45 degree mitre quite so cleanly as a Morso F.

 

[PeteG]

Much appreciated Custard I made a 45 degree shooting board at weekend although I haven't used it yet, hopefully I won't have to!
Do I understand that with a Morso, it's purely the pressure exerted by the blades that makes the cut?

 

[custard]

Do I understand that with a Morso, it's purely the pressure exerted by the blades that makes the cut?

That's right, the mechanism is foot operated (hydraulic or air pressure on the latest fancy versions), and the blade slices through the wood like a giant paring chisel. The mechanism automatically sets a particularly fine cut for the very final chop to achieve the best quality.

 

[Adam9453]

Thanks custard for taking the time to give the thorough answer above, it's interesting to know what works for others.
I expect I'll end going down a similar route to you by using the moveable back gauge on my sliding table on my sliding panel table saw. It's fairly manual to set using a digital angle gauge but it is accurate and repeatable. For common angles, like 45, 30 degrees etc, I will, one day, get around to making a jig so it can just be put on top of the table up against the back gauge (back gauge set at 90 degrees) to enable quick cutting of angles without much setting.
I visited dr bobs shop recently and I'm pretty sure he's got a nice little morso there which they use to effectively notch out face frames for lovely accurate joints. It does give a lovely cut and better still, de-skills the task so virtually anyone can use it to get great results.
I'm still torn between the dewalt and the festool SCMS as I know people who use both commercially. From what I understand the dewalt edged it for many because it is a chunk cheaper, has shadow line indicating system so doesn't need adjusting like lasers etc. The festool apparently has better dust extraction but I didn't think either were great for dust extraction. I'll keep pondering which to get until my current SCMS either bites the bullet or if I get fed up of using work arounds to get round it's shortcomings.
I have been very impressed by pretty much all the other festool tools I've used so it's easy to see how it can become addictive and end up with a very green and black workshop.

 

[PeteG]

Thanks again Custard Can't imagine the force it must produce, and here's me thinking before mitre saws folk used a hand saw and plane.
I've gone all out and ordered the KS120, stupid amount of money for a saw but after the hassle with the Dewalt and it's replacement, it should
be money well spent.