Cycling Around the World

[kenneth cooke]

Who said anything about a nice thread on cycling?- and as the poster from Wales Quotes "Check out Tasmania, New Zealand, and Australia, Ken, to name but a few to add to the book". I am sorry but I cannot be expected to take corporate responsibility for my ancestors choose how tenuous that slender link may be. But I can take responsibility for the here and now and the whole Iraq, Afghanistan conflicts stink and for that I blame our Government, who I did not vote into power, and the US administration who are scared of their own shadow and oil crazy

 

[Digit]

I am sorry but I cannot be expected to take corporate responsibility for my ancestors

Agree absolutely.

Roy.

 

[MrJay]

oh zing!

Who said anything about a nice thread on cycling?

Well the thread title kinda strongly hinted...

 

[kenneth cooke]

This is what happens when people do stupid on the internet. What should have been a nice thread about cycling has managed to turn into an international handbag swinging contest. Classic.

There's a mini film about Marks cycle ride on the youtube.

Where I come from we call it healthy debate and any way who said anything about a nice thread on cycling?

 

[MrJay]

I'd rather discuss cycling, but hey...

Debate and healthy don't necessarily go together. You said in your opening post

I thought it interesting that he negotiated Iran and Afghanistan without trouble only to get mugged and robbed in the USA.

There's nothing there that is telling about the US. You might as well roll a dice and say you thought it was interesting you got a 5 and not a 2 or a 4. It's not meaningful in the slightest. What's going on here is that you have an anti-american prejudice and will clumsily adopt any argument to reinforce your position without question, no matter how flimsy or immaterial the argument.

Prejudices can sometimes draw the right conclusions - I certainly think that you're right to be critical of US foreign policy, but prejudices are right by happenstance rather than design. A stopped clock is right twice a day. Prejudice is no more a good foundation for 'healthy' debate than a stopped clock is useful for telling the time.

I also think that Grinder is right to think you're wrong to cast your aspersions about the US. I just think it's a shame his retort is to decide that whoever attacked Mark must have been a dirty Mexican rather than a proper American. There is no particular evidence to suggest this might be the case and if illegals were significantly inclined to violent crime there would be good statistical evidence to show that - there isn't (there's helluvalot of fallacious argument and a lot of people clumsily lapping it up - but that's not the same thing). Grinder's defense of all that is good and true about the US is to jettison his own prejudices about illegal immigrants into the fray by way of a decoy. Still no healthy debate then.

And so it continues with Grinder resorting to telling me 'how it is' and threatening to withdraw the US from active international duty and you getting into a muddle about Indians and all in a thread about cycling. You couldn't make it up.

I'm sure this sounds as though I think you're all dumb. I don't, I just think you don't know what you're talking about in this instance and don't know how to form that lack of knowledge into the coherent arguments that you want to make; which is where most of us are at most of the time. Still not the same thing as healthy debate though.

 

[kenneth cooke]

Then don't contribute to it then. Nobody takes these forums seriously anyway

 

[andycktm]

On the Iraq bit.........
There was two choices what we have now,or Saddam with
an arsenal of ss20's :shock:
I'll take what we have now!!!!

 

[Rich]

I certainly take a healthy debate seriously as do most on the forum including the mods and Charley And I been reprimanded for being Dogmatic in my opinions, that's not to say I don't respect others, however the cyclist could have been in Antigua or South London or Ossetia, the incident may have taken place anywhere and been carried out by anyone, without knowing the facts it's a no brainer really, one things for sure, it would not have happened in a velodrome.

Rich.

 

[Travis]

To end this on a funny note.

I have thought long and hard on this (about 30 seconds) and my thinking that the cyclist did not have a fast enough bicycle when he got to the USA.

 

[andycktm]

I've an answer for that.......
He forgot to change his tires from dirt track to tarmac!!

 

[Grinding One]

To end this on a funny note.

I have thought long and hard on this (about 30 seconds) and my thinking that the cyclist did not have a fast enough bicycle when he got to the USA.

I still think if he was only held up the bike not stolen he got off easy...
Some people get killed for their shoes over here(500.00 sneakers)

As to the Indians ,well as I recall a lot of europeans came here to shoot big game (Buffaloes) the white guys new that if they wiped out the food source these people would move on and the land could be settled by more people from Europe,who would pay taxes to the USA.

Did not mean to hijack the tread....back to cycling ...I`ve got a nice old cruiser wana race??

 

[Travis]

Can't we all get along?

8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[kenneth cooke]

On the Iraq bit.........
There was two choices what we have now,or Saddam with
an arsenal of ss20's :shock:
I'll take what we have now!!!!

I see you are in West Yorkshire. Whereabouts? And it they wanted to rid the world of Saddam they would have just put special opps troops in and taken him out. Don't be fooled, it's about the oil

 

[andycktm]

Pontefract area.
A bit like they did with Hitler?

 

[Digit]

I doubt that would have achieved owt Ken, 'The King is dead, long live the King' would have applied I suspect.

Roy.

 

[Grinding One]

On the Iraq bit.........
There was two choices what we have now,or Saddam with
an arsenal of ss20's :shock:
I'll take what we have now!!!!

I see you are in West Yorkshire. Whereabouts? And it they wanted to rid the world of Saddam they would have just put special opps troops in and taken him out. Don't be fooled, it's about the oil

Got a message for you we Americans have oil deposits just not drilling them.

What about Saddam killing all those Kurds?? Attacking Iran with Gas?? Oh I see only the USA is band from killing off the bad guys....Get a clue would you the US gave all kinds of aid during the war to Russia,England,France and guess what After the war rebuilt Gemany and helped Japan back onto their feet....Got any guess who paid those debts?? We have givin our blood so you can say what you will any where...if we didn`t you would be learning German.Had to do it twice too,some people can not get it right the first time.Correct me if I am wrong ,Europeans have been fighting each other from day one? And now you want for us to pick up our checker boards and leave you to each others wills?? Find by me...but what a waste.
Then when one guy gets robbed(You do not have crooks in England??) you make a stink out of that....well I am sorry he was robbed and if he asked me for help he would have been up a few dollars,a few other people I know would have chipped in too....have you noticed all of the donations coming into the states after a catastrophy ....Ha good luck with that one another one way street,you do not even have to ask us to help we are always standing by....maybe one day we will run out?? Hope not to many deserving people in this world...its the Polititions that are causeing all of the trouble....

RANT OVER
Can we get back to bicycles,I still wanna race

 

[kenneth cooke]

Pontefract area.
A bit like they did with Hitler?

Don't think they had the sophistication in those days- I was born in Pontefract by the way

 

[kenneth cooke]

Please do not get me started on that old how we won the war mantra. You quote"Get a clue would you the US gave all kinds of aid during the war to Russia,England,France and guess what After the war rebuilt Gemany and helped Japan back onto their feet"

As one of your finest (John MacEnroe)said "You can not be serious"

Goodbye

 

[Grinding One]

Can't we all get along?

8) 8) 8) 8)

yup I can!!

 

[kenneth cooke]

Can't we all get along?

8) 8) 8) 8)

yup I can!!

I guess the issues surrounding your fellow American comments are why it is difficult for many people to be pro American and although I said that I did not particularly wish to be drawn into that thorny subject surrounding happenings before I was born I will try to explain my feelings

Your fellow countryman said and I quote "Get a clue would you the US gave all kinds of aid during the war to Russia,England,France and guess what After the war rebuilt Gemany and helped Japan back onto their feet"

Firstly forget this altruistic myth about coming to the aid of the UK in the 2nd World War. US soldiers had no choice they were ordered to fight on the side of the British by the American Government. This was in order to protect the colossal armament contracts which American Commercial Companies were making millions out of. Sadly the soldiers were just canon fodder. After the war the American companies continued to make enormous profits from contracts placed to rebuild cities and infrastructure destroyed in the conflict.

Moving on to the Japanese conflict and the myth surrounding America helping to put Japan back on it's feet, to quote your fellow countryman. America had just dropped the most deadly weapon known to mankind onto large populated cities in Japan wiping millions of innocent civilians from the face of the earth. Of course it helps Americans sleep better at nights if it tells it's self that this act of mass murder of innocent Japanese people saved many thousands of military lives on both sides if the conflict had continued but if you really explore your conscience about this horrendous act it is impossible to justify. There again it could be said that the American armed forces had no say in the matter and were only carrying out orders given by the Government. This of course is true, in part but it was up to the American people to say no, however, as history has shown it took another major conflict, this time in Vietnam and many more innocent civilian deaths before the American people started to say enough.

You will have gathered by now that I am totally against aggression and killing of our fellow humans. As a practicing Buddhist for many years I am aware of the laws of Karma which may be easier to understand from a Christian perspective. As you sow so shall you reap. Understanding these laws enables me and millions of Buddhist around the world to see the total futility of war. It is only now that these laws are coming home to roost on the aggressors.

Although I am not anti American, I am not anti anything except anti killing, so I do not wish harm on any one and like the rest of the world I looked on in horror at the events surrounding 9/11 and the huge loss of civilian life but if one wishes to the the laws of Karma at work, look no further and as the seat of super power moves East and Far East as it surly will in the next decade America needs to hope that in those strongly Buddhist countries the civilians there are able to practice compassion against it's aggressors unless there will be many more innocent deaths- Slightly confused you have changed your avatar symbol, the past is more difficult to correct