Corro Dip vs Citric Acid help

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Mr_P

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I'm now the proud owner of number of old n rusty planes

Is citric acid from the home brew shop any good (very, very cheap)

but it does say

When using citric acid avoid inhaling fumes, skin and eye contact, ingestion as it may cause irritation

Was planning on using it in the garage but the cat does have permanent access so maybe not a good idea.

Everyone seems to rave about the corro dip, expensive but re-usable.

Can't find the safety precautions for that.

Have a tiny shed outside so guess I could use either outside but will have to wait a few more weeks to guarantee a frost free night.

Do they both eat / dissolve japanning ?
 
One drawback with citric acid - any acid - is the need to fully neutralise it on the item that's been soaked. I'd say dipped, but the amount of time involved and total submersion basically amount to soaking, but it does work extremely well as a means of removing rust. However, it also etches the surface of the metal and can remove more than necessary if you soak an item for too long. Many may recollect a school experiment involving a tooth left in a glass of coca cola overnight or for a few days to illustrate the effect soft drinks have on our teeth...... Well, the active ingredient and cause of the tooth enamel erosion was and is citric acid. It's effects can be quite profound if an item is left soaking for too long, so rinse thoroughly after treatment.

Citric acid can affect japanning if rust is present beneath the surface and can also leave a "tide mark" on the surface of metal's that have only been partially submerged. Such marks can be hard to remove if the acid has etched deeply into the surface. Especially when dealing with more porous cast iron.

I normally treat tools using citric acid indoors and think ashma sufferers are more at risk from fumes than those of us fortunate enough to be healthy, but caution is always best advised and be sure to treat tools in a well ventilated area, as well as neutralise the acid afterwards.
 
I used citric acid and it was used indoors with no ventilation etc and had no issues.
I would echo Gary's comment, do not leave it the mix too long. I think i did through lazyness and to try to remove the japanning ( which it didn't) However it did effect the frog material by eating away at it.

I found 1 to 2 hours at the most got rid of the rust without damage. Not days like me to try to remove japanning :oops:

Depending on the amount of tools to be de - rusted, ebay sells larger quantities of citric acid, cheaper than my local homebrew shop.
 
carlb40":8dp6pl6v said:
I used citric acid and it was used indoors with no ventilation etc and had no issues.
I would echo Gary's comment, do not leave it the mix too long. I think i did through lazyness and to try to remove the japanning ( which it didn't) However it did effect the frog material by eating away at it.

I found 1 to 2 hours at the most got rid of the rust without damage. Not days like me to try to remove japanning :oops:

Depending on the amount of tools to be de - rusted, ebay sells larger quantities of citric acid, cheaper than my local homebrew shop.
Click to expand...

As per Carl's recommendation, a couple of hours pickling normally does the trick and no longer than overnight at most before removing an item and neutralising it's surfaces in clean running water.

I once placed a single Stanley knife blade in the mix - as a bit of an experiment - for six days. When removed I found the blade was embrittled and reduced to the thickness of a razor blade within that timescale, so comments regarding how it only reacts to rust are quite unfounded and incorrect. It can and does kill tools if used without due care.
 
GazPal":1a53hd10 said:
carlb40":1a53hd10 said:
I used citric acid and it was used indoors with no ventilation etc and had no issues.
I would echo Gary's comment, do not leave it the mix too long. I think i did through lazyness and to try to remove the japanning ( which it didn't) However it did effect the frog material by eating away at it.

I found 1 to 2 hours at the most got rid of the rust without damage. Not days like me to try to remove japanning :oops:

Depending on the amount of tools to be de - rusted, ebay sells larger quantities of citric acid, cheaper than my local homebrew shop.
Click to expand...

As per Carl's recommendation, a couple of hours pickling normally does the trick and no longer than overnight at most before removing an item and neutralising it's surfaces in clean running water.

I once placed a single Stanley knife blade in the mix - as a bit of an experiment - for six days. When removed I found the blade was embrittled and reduced to the thickness of a razor blade within that timescale, so comments regarding how it only reacts to rust are quite unfounded and incorrect. It can and does kill tools if used without due care.
Click to expand...

Agree, so much so that i reckon i now need a new frog for my 4 1/2 :(


PS
I have some oxalic acid, so if you want i can send you 100gms if you want?
 
carlb40":3sq50vvd said:
Agree, so much so that i reckon i now need a new frog for my 4 1/2 :(
Click to expand...

Ouch! :(

I know I don't have any spare frogs in the half sizes, but hopefully someone might chime in with one they can spare.

I once accidentally killed a good block plane body (The resultant pitting was scary) with citric acid, so - nowadays - much of the time I avoid special dips and go straight to abrasive pads and wire disks.
 
Thank's Gary. The frog is still usable, i think the acid in total ate into the top of the frog by the lateral adjuster by about 2-3mm. I will track down a frog at some point. Being one of the versions made around 1927 or before ( has the smooth lever cap) They don't often get split on ebay.
 
carlb40":29d5thac said:
Thank's Gary. The frog is still usable, i think the acid in total ate into the top of the frog by the lateral adjuster by about 2-3mm. I will track down a frog at some point. Being one of the versions made around 1927 or before ( has the smooth lever cap) They don't often get split on ebay.
Click to expand...

I'll keep my eyes peeled and let you know if I spot one Carl. :)
 
I use citric acid indoors - in my bathroom. A little smell is present, but we do this not all day and not every day. As regarding time of exposure - I prefer hot water, hot from a boiler but not boiling water from oven. And in these cases about 30 minutes enough.
Serge
 
I'm not a chemist, but I think that when citric acid (or any other acid) is removing rust, the visible bubbles that you can see are probably hydrogen; that would be why the vendors put the warning on.

But provided that you don't hang over the tub inhaling deeply with a lighted cigarette in your mouth, I think you should have no problems.

As with any chemical reaction, the time taken can be reduced (and made less controllable) by increasing the concentration of the acid and the temperature.

The difference with Corro-dip and some other proprietary solutions is that as well as removing the rust, they bond with the exposed metal to protect it - a process called chelation.
 
AndyT":i57x2oay said:
I'm not a chemist, but I think that when citric acid (or any other acid) is removing rust, the visible bubbles that you can see are probably hydrogen; that would be why the vendors put the warning on.

But provided that you don't hang over the tub inhaling deeply with a lighted cigarette in your mouth, I think you should have no problems.

As with any chemical reaction, the time taken can be reduced (and made less controllable) by increasing the concentration of the acid and the temperature.

The difference with Corro-dip and some other proprietary solutions is that as well as removing the rust, they bond with the exposed metal to protect it - a process called chelation.
Click to expand...

Another process that involves 'chelation' is the molasses dip, a lot less agressive than acid, and like the other methods it wont remove the japanning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZCFcxf5IBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-gBAjEga1s
 
Had a good week on fleabay and I've reached break even on my job lot of tools so going to treat myself to some corro dip but I can't find a UK supplier.

Any ideas ?
 
From this,
DSC_1484.JPG

To this,


With Cillit Bang and scotch brite pads, o/k I did respray the body and frog, but the rust was removed with Cillit Bang.

Pete
 

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Many thanks.

I did look on google honest, found it no problems a few weeks ago but no joy this morning.

Edit: Very nice job Mr Maddex but will give the corro dip a whirl first, might be cheaper as I have a few planes that look like yours in the before pic and the corro dip is re-usable I believe.

Edit no. 2: Eeek £23.28 + VAT + £10.20 p+p = £33.48 = No thanks
 
have a look also at deox-c. I found that one to be pretty good stuff, particularly when made with hot water.

£12.20 + £2.95 P and P.

NB it may not be like for like quantities, but there will be enough to make up quite a few litres. You can vary the strength as required.
 
Mr_P":1d0veulr said:
Many thanks.

I did look on google honest, found it no problems a few weeks ago but no joy this morning.

Edit: Very nice job Mr Maddex but will give the corro dip a whirl first, might be cheaper as I have a few planes that look like yours in the before pic and the corro dip is re-usable I believe.

Edit no. 2: Eeek £23.28 + VAT + £10.20 p+p = £33.48 = No thanks
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for...mind you...I only paid 50p for my litre. (6L diluted).

I won't repeat why it's so good..a quick search on UKW will bring up the story a few times. :wink:

Oh...and it doesn't eat frogs or any other amphibians! :mrgreen:

Jim
 

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