Checking glue still ok to use

[TonyW]

Bit late now as I have stuck my frame together but I realised that the glue I was using (Titebond Original) was an old bottle that should have been disposed of some time ago. It is probably about 2+ years old.

Anyway the frame does seem to be Ok as far as I can tell so far! It got me thinking about how to test glue effectiveness (particularly of unknown date). Short of sticking 2 pieces together and testing how much effort required to separate I am lost for ideas - except of course buy fresh glue regularly. But then how do you know how long the supplier has had it in stock?

Do you know of any effective testing methods?

Cheers
Tony

 

[BigShot]

If it was me I'd be inclined to get some offcuts, replicate some of the joins you've used in the frame and glue them up with the same gear... then destruction test it.

If the wood gives up before the glue you know there's nothing at all wrong with it. If the glue lets go you might want to replace it.

Just a couple of penneth there, but that's what I'd do.
Can't pretend I'm any sort of expert though.

 

[superunknown]

I have a bottle of titebond II dark wood glue thats been kicking about for I would guess near enough 10 years, I still use it from time to time on small boxes and its not failed yet. Good stuff.

 

[PAC1]

In my experience Titebond does not like the cold so if it has been stored at low or below freezing tempreture it can go flaky. I would test it on some scraps if you think it may have been exposed to the cold.

 

[AndyT]

I've just assembled some dovetail joints with some Titebond liquid hide glue that said it should be used by 2002. It worked fine.

I should add that it had been stored in a cupboard in my basement workshop at a pretty constant cool temperature, and I did check on some scrap first!

Andy

 

[Dave D]

Many years ago I was introduced to Cascamite, now known as Extramite or Polymite at woodwork evening classes. We all used this glue for veneering, and all joints.

It is indeed an immensely strong glue. Clean and easy to use, waterproof, gap filling, no creep. I believe that it was used to build Mosquito aircraft.


So I started to use it at home and had no end of disasters with lifting veneers and joints coming apart.

The problem, I discovered, was that the glue is in fact a two part glue with the resin and hardener already mixed as a white powder and activated by mixing with water.

As soon as the container is opened then atmospheric moisture starts to set off the chemical reaction in the glue.

Even if the container is sealed as tightly as possible, and plastic containers, I found, were worse than tins, then the glue rapidly deteriorates

Unfortunately the glue looked just the same.

I still think that this is a good glue but only for big jobs when all the glue can be used up within a week or so of opening.

Ps I have edited this to add "already mixed" for clarity

 

[RobertMP]

Many years ago I was introduced to Cascamite, now known as Extramite or Polymite at woodwork evening classes. We all used this glue for veneering, and all joints.

It is indeed an immensely strong glue. Clean and easy to use, waterproof, gap filling, no creep. I believe that it was used to build Mosquito aircraft.


So I started to use it at home and had no end of disasters with lifting veneers and joints coming apart.

The problem, I discovered, was that the glue is in fact a two part glue with the resin and hardener mixed as a white powder and activated by mixing with water.

As soon as the container is opened then atmospheric moisture starts to set off the chemical reaction in the glue.

Even if the container is sealed as tightly as possible, and plastic containers, I found, were worse than tins, then the glue rapidly deteriorates

Unfortunately the glue looked just the same.

I still think that this is a good glue but only for big jobs when all the glue can be used up within a week or so of opening.

Interesting. I've just had a problem with extramite not sticking properly where it used to work fine only a couple of months ago. Looks like it is best thrown away after the job it was bought for.

 

[laird]

You used to be able to buy Cascamite as a powder, which you mixed with water as and when you required it. The powder was stable (obviously as long as you kept it dry in it's tin). Don't know if this is still an option, I must do some asking around.

 

[Dave D]

Cascamite is still like that.
I should have made it clear that the glue and hardener are already mixed in the tin.

My problem was that even if you sealed the tin there was still some atmospheric moisture trapped inside which set the glue off over time.
I seem to remember that I had better shelf life with proper tins which sealed like paint cans but when plastic containers came in the seal was inadequate and moisture could creep in.
I was living in Scotland at the time, and by the sea, so maybe the weather conditions were to partly blame.

I suppose that my big gripe is that there was no warning on the package of limited shelf life and it ruined some otherwise good work.

 

[TonyW]

I seem to remember that I had better shelf life with proper tins which sealed like paint cans but when plastic containers came in the seal was inadequate and moisture could creep in.

I believe that you are correct here tins with a tight fitting lid should keep the contents in better condition for longer. AFAIK all plastics are air permeable and over time I assume air with small water content will get through - probably worse with containers that are not full

 

[xy mosian]

How about emptying the contents of a new tin of ??amite into a plastic bag within the tin itself? Then the loose end of the bag can be twisted down to expel excess air from around the powder before refitting the lid. Not necessary of course if you use it quickly.

Cascamite, by any name is brilliant for many jobs, first time I came across it was laminating a canoe from 0.8mm aircraft ply.

xy

 

[Dave D]

Now that is a brilliant idea

You certainly got it right this time.

I always appreciated how good the glue was but for years I have avoided it
for shelf life reasons.

I think that I will try it again.

Thank You very much

 

[xy mosian]

Thanks Dave.

xy

 

[RobertMP]

my problem was with a plastic 'bucket' type container. I'd left the lid laying on top of the tub, not snapped on.