Car tax to be abolished !!!!!!!!!

[RogerS]

......
I know this will go down like a lead balloon but why should be we subsidize (directly or indirectly) people living in rural communities?

You're right. It has. Rarely have I seen such a post that it is so out of touch with reality and unsympathetic. I think that you deserve the prize for 'Selfish Sweeping Generalisation of the Year'.

The cost of most services is going to be more expensive in rural locations,

What has this got to do with the topic in question? What services? The only service we get is the refuse collection. Or perhaps you want all those sending their children to the local primary school should pay a levy.

......
the people there should take that into account

What exactly is 'that' ? We/they pay their council taxes like everyone else. Or are you saying that there should be a premium levied on the council tax because the refuse lorry has to drive further? How about a levy on those living in towns and cities to compensate for the extra time that the refuse lorries have to spend due to road congestion?

and, if they don't like it, do what we all have to and move somewhere else.

Really? And where do you propose that they move to? The cities? And how are they going to afford that? Have you seen the price differentials? And never mind all the people that actually work and live in the community. Sod the nurses. They can go and live in the cities. The primary school teacher can do that as well....only they will then need to reverse commute back to the rural primary schools.

How are 80 year-olds going to get a mortgage to pay for their new hovel in the city?

I'm not completely without heart, I have some sympathy for farmers and others that actually work on the land as they absolutely have to be there but from what I can see they make up a fairly small percentage of the people that now live in rural locations

Really? You've made an exhaustive journey throughout the length if the British Isles so you know this to be a fact?

What's next? Ethnic cleansing?

 

[wobblycogs]

Why is it so wrong to expect people to pay what it costs to deliver a service be that roads, rubbish collection or anything else?

If, for example, you lived in the middle of nowhere and it cost £5000 a year to collect your rubbish but you pay £2500 a year in council tax do you really think it's fair to ask the rest of the country to subsidize that collection for you because you pay your taxes? You are basically asking people that are living cheaply to work harder / longer so that you can live in the country.

 

[RogerS]

Why is it so wrong to expect people to pay what it costs to deliver a service be that roads, rubbish collection or anything else?

If, for example, you lived in the middle of nowhere and it cost £5000 a year to collect your rubbish but you pay £2500 a year in council tax do you really think it's fair to ask the rest of the country to subsidize that collection for you because you pay your taxes? You are basically asking people that are living cheaply to work harder / longer so that you can live in the country.

One could say the same for the NHS.

You are still ignoring all those on lower incomes or almost no income. Where do you want them to go? Oh, they're old. Perhaps you'd prefer to see them culled for that is the logical extension of your 'argument'.

 

[wobblycogs]

I'm sure you'll be surprised to hear that I don't, in fact, want to see anyone culled. I firmly believe that anyone unable to help themselves should be helped by the state without question. I am, however, against working to pay tax that is used to subsidize other peoples life style choices. I don't propose going around the countryside turfing old people out of their homes wholesale but likewise I don't see the state has a duty to provide exactly the same services (or more commonly level of service) everywhere.

The NHS is a much more difficult case because you can alter service quality as well as location. We could, for example, have a small local hospital in every town and village which provides basic care facilities and few large hospitals that provide extensive care facilities. Alternatively we could have few small local hospitals and a moderate to large number of large hospitals in cities. The Government has chosen the latter which I think was the correct choice.

 

[RogerS]

.... I don't propose going around the countryside turfing old people out of their homes wholesale .....

Um..yes, you did.

The cost of most services is going to be more expensive in rural locations, the people there should take that into account and, if they don't like it, do what we all have to and move somewhere else.

 

[wobblycogs]

Please show me where exactly in that line I said we should going around evicting old people. Feel free to embolden that specific section for me because try as I might I can't seem to see it.

There's a world of difference between suggesting that people move so that they can live more cheaply and kicking people out on to the street because they are poor.

 

[RogerS]

Please show me where exactly in that line I said we should going around evicting old people. Feel free to embolden that specific section for me because try as I might I can't seem to see it.

There's a world of difference between suggesting that people move so that they can live more cheaply and kicking people out on to the street because they are poor.

Here...although I've already provided it...

I know this will go down like a lead balloon but why should be we subsidize (directly or indirectly) people living in rural communities? The cost of most services is going to be more expensive in rural locations, the people there should take that into account and, if they don't like it, do what we all have to and move somewhere else.


Or are you now selectively moving the goalposts?

Actually thinking about it I think you're on to a winner. Let's scrap the council tax completely. I am very happy to just pay for the service I use namely the refuse collection although if it was too expensive then I'd probably not even do that and take my rubbish down the tip. I don't have kids so i don't need to pay anything towards education. I'll willingly only pay the fire brigade if I have to call them out. Likewise the police. Hey, this is good. I like this.

Moving on...reduce the tax burden that you are worried about and abolish the NHS. Let people pay for their healthcare. After all, if they stuff themselves full of junk food and get fat then, of course, they should have to pay for all the health problems that that engenders. Smokers....even more so. Binge drinkers....yup, they pay for treatment when they stick their hands through a plate-glass window.

We're on a roll here. Just as long as we can buy a 'happy' pill that we can take when we no longer have enough money to pay for these things. We can, in the above discussion, of course conveniently forget all the money that we paid in taxes throughout our working life that helped pay for services for those were elderly when we were young.

Blimey, I'm starting to sound like Jacob. Nurse...where are the screens ? !

 

[wobblycogs]

As I suspected you are simply putting words into my mouth. For whatever reason you have assumed that I want to go on a granny bashing spree (or other disadvantaged group of your choice) rather than target the large number of people that really do have a choice where they live. I couldn't possibly have been thinking about all those middle and high income families that have moved to the country and now whine about the fact the Internet is slow and the trains don't run every ten minutes.

The trains are a great example actually, the Government currently subsidizes about half the cost of a ticket. If you look at the figures though it tends to be richer people that use the train more. The upshot is that the poor are subsidizing the rich to use the train, that's just crazy. Additionally, you're so worried about all those poor people living in rural locations having to move to hovels in city that you've forgotten that people living in those hovels in the city right now are partially subsidizing them with the tax they pay. How do you explain to those hovel dwellers that they could have more money in their pocket if they didn't have to pay for others to lead a life they can't afford?

 

[RogerS]

As I suspected you are simply putting words into my mouth. For whatever reason you have assumed that I want to go on a granny bashing spree (or other disadvantaged group of your choice) rather than target the large number of people that really do have a choice where they live. I couldn't possibly have been thinking about all those middle and high income families that have moved to the country and now whine about the fact the Internet is slow and the trains don't run every ten minutes.

The trains are a great example actually, the Government currently subsidizes about half the cost of a ticket. If you look at the figures though it tends to be richer people that use the train more. The upshot is that the poor are subsidizing the rich to use the train, that's just crazy. Additionally, you're so worried about all those poor people living in rural locations having to move to hovels in city that you've forgotten that people living in those hovels in the city right now are partially subsidizing them with the tax they pay. How do you explain to those hovel dwellers that they could have more money in their pocket if they didn't have to pay for others to lead a life they can't afford?

Goalposts..moving. That is not what you originally said. And now you're introducing even more red-herrings. And making huge sweeping generalisations again. Pointless discussing it further with you.

 

[Tom K]

What have roads got to do with it? It's vehicle excise duty not road tax just .gov fundraising like business rates :roll:

 

[deserter]

I live in a rural village, earn little more than minimum wage, have a wife and 2 kids. My home is rented (housing association), I get child and working tax credits.
I never complain about the railways or any public transport for that matter, I don't complain about the distance I travel to or from work, my kids get fed the food they want/ need and have the clothes they need.
I do regularly complain about rich city dwellers coming into rural societies buying ruddy great houses and then computing to cities to work, pushing up house prices and making it so local people can't afford to buy homes in the area, would you suggest therefore that I move me and my family to the nearest city, struggle to afford to travel to my place of work and have no cash left to provide for my children? Whom incidentally under your regime will now be lacking any dirt of health care or education.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[deserter]

Sorry for spelling mistakes this type of talk just makes me angry.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[RogerS]

I live in a rural village, earn little more than minimum wage, have a wife and 2 kids. My home is rented (housing association), I get child and working tax credits.
I never complain about the railways or any public transport for that matter, I don't complain about the distance I travel to or from work, my kids get fed the food they want/ need and have the clothes they need.
I do regularly complain about rich city dwellers coming into rural societies buying ruddy great houses and then computing to cities to work, pushing up house prices and making it so local people can't afford to buy homes in the area, would you suggest therefore that I move me and my family to the nearest city, struggle to afford to travel to my place of work and have no cash left to provide for my children? Whom incidentally under your regime will now be lacking any dirt of health care or education.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

Well said.

 

[Louise-Paisley]

What have roads got to do with it? It's vehicle excise duty not road tax just .gov fundraising like business rates :roll:

Exactly, tax is tax, the only reason they are given different names is to make the tax burden appear less than it is. Income tax, car tax, VAT, PAYF tax.. they all go into the same pot. If instead of naming them they just called it tax and said "We will take 80% of every penny you earn" there would be an uproar, but by calling it a thousand different names and taking little slices here and there they get away with taking 80p in the pound off you and 99% of the population do not have the sense to realise that income tax is just a tiny fraction of what they are actually paying.

Its about time they got rid of all the tax recycling public sector workers which do nothing more than take tax in one hand, help themselves to a slice of it and hand what's left back to you in the other - Tax credits being a prime example! These pen pushers are doing nothing but syphon off revenue and every 2 people actually generating revenue (manufacturing) has to pay to keep one pen pusher in a job!

Next on the list should be the long term unemployed, the 2 & 3 generation families that have never lifted a finger in their lives, yes we all fall on hard times at one point or another but these sponging scum bags make a career out of it.. You should get benefits for 6 months and after that you should have to work for it - If the choice they had was work 40 hours a week cutting the park grass with a push mower to get unemployment benefit or work 40 hours a week for minimum wage you can bet there would be an awful lot of them get off their ass and find a job!

I ended up out of work, due the the state of the construction industry, the economy and other reasons I won't go into here it was clear that employment as an electrician was not going to happen. I started Happy House Cats as a means to get out of the benefit system, I started it up a just over a year ago with less than £100 and a government scheme where I got the dole money and an extra tenner a week, I put 70 to 80 hours a week of effort into it and after the scheme ended I lived on less than £40 a week to put every penny I can back into it.. Now it is starting to pay slowly, and I have managed to build a workshop and buy the tools I need to make cat wheels and furniture to expand and hopefully make enough that I can survive..

It sickens me to the pit of my stomach to see the same old faces going into the jobcentre, week after week, month after month, decade after decade, with tin of beer in one hand and cigarette in the other to collect a slice of my money so they can sit in front of sky TV all day doing begger all to benefit anyone and passing on the skills to screw the system to their offspring for when they reach benefit age.

Things are going to change, they have to, if we continue in the same way we are now the country will simply collapse. Common sense dictates that as a nation we cannot continue to spend twice as much money as we make, sooner or later the poop will hit the fan and it is starting to happen now.

See, this is why I should not let myself get drawn into politics discussions

 

[doorframe]

What have roads got to do with it? It's vehicle excise duty not road tax just .gov fundraising like business rates :roll:

Exactly, tax is tax, the only reason they are given different names is to make the tax burden appear less than it is. Income tax, car tax, VAT, PAYF tax.. they all go into the same pot. If instead of naming them they just called it tax and said "We will take 80% of every penny you earn" there would be an uproar, but by calling it a thousand different names and taking little slices here and there they get away with taking 80p in the pound off you and 99% of the population do not have the sense to realise that income tax is just a tiny fraction of what they are actually paying.

Its about time they got rid of all the tax recycling public sector workers which do nothing more than take tax in one hand, help themselves to a slice of it and hand what's left back to you in the other - Tax credits being a prime example! These pen pushers are doing nothing but syphon off revenue and every 2 people actually generating revenue (manufacturing) has to pay to keep one pen pusher in a job!

Next on the list should be the long term unemployed, the 2 & 3 generation families that have never lifted a finger in their lives, yes we all fall on hard times at one point or another but these sponging scum bags make a career out of it.. You should get benefits for 6 months and after that you should have to work for it - If the choice they had was work 40 hours a week cutting the park grass with a push mower to get unemployment benefit or work 40 hours a week for minimum wage you can bet there would be an awful lot of them get off their ass and find a job!

I ended up out of work, due the the state of the construction industry, the economy and other reasons I won't go into here it was clear that employment as an electrician was not going to happen. I started Happy House Cats as a means to get out of the benefit system, I started it up a just over a year ago with less than £100 and a government scheme where I got the dole money and an extra tenner a week, I put 70 to 80 hours a week of effort into it and after the scheme ended I lived on less than £40 a week to put every penny I can back into it.. Now it is starting to pay slowly, and I have managed to build a workshop and buy the tools I need to make cat wheels and furniture to expand and hopefully make enough that I can survive..

It sickens me to the pit of my stomach to see the same old faces going into the jobcentre, week after week, month after month, decade after decade, with tin of beer in one hand and cigarette in the other to collect a slice of my money so they can sit in front of sky TV all day doing begger all to benefit anyone and passing on the skills to screw the system to their offspring for when they reach benefit age.

Things are going to change, they have to, if we continue in the same way we are now the country will simply collapse. Common sense dictates that as a nation we cannot continue to spend twice as much money as we make, sooner or later the poop will hit the fan and it is starting to happen now.

See, this is why I should not let myself get drawn into politics discussions

 

[Phil Pascoe]

In this area we've single mothers with 7 or 8 kids by 50 different fathers who pick up 2, 3, even 4 times in benefits what they could conceivably earn, yet the powers that be deny this happens. We've children, parents, grandparent and great grandparents on the same estates, some of whom have never done a days legitimate work in their lives. £200,000,000,000 a year in social security payments, apparently, and rising; why on earth would any sane person wish to work.

 

[Louise-Paisley]

Exactly, but if they had to do 40 hours a week graft for it..