Buying new woodturning tools

UKworkshop.co.uk

Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Keithie

Established Member
Joined
30 Nov 2016
Messages
317
Reaction score
0
Location
Somerset
Probably a dumb question but ... is there much real difference in quality between the various brands of new woodturning tools (on a like for like basis)?

Obviously there is a difference in price between brands but is that just a marketing thing or are there real differences?
 
Actually not a dumb question at all, quite astute in fact and one I suspect many turners ask repeatedly. The short answer is probably no! However that has some basic assumptions which is that the steel is more or less the same (obviously I'm talking about HSS here).

Lets just park the steel issue for a moment and focus on the others. The two big areas of difference are the handle design and the profile. So take a gouge for example, some makers will have a deeper flute in their bowl gouge than others and that's about personal preference. Longer handles are better for work where the tool is a long way over the rest as you need to extra leverage at the back to counter the tendency to catch. This is especially true with scrapers for doing the wall to base transition in deep bowls or tall spindle turned hollow vessels. Also, the aesthetic of the handle, the wood used and how it fits in your hand/arm are considerations. Personally I like Sorby's design but then I don't like their prices and I cant tell any difference in the performance of their HSS against a cheapie Axy low range tool. By which I mean they both seem to hold a freshly sharpened edge about the same time. There are many other such details about profile differences, rounded sides on a skew is another example. Again, I roll beads using a skew so I like a skew with rounded edges. I have square edged skews too from my Dads old turning tools and I soften the edges on those with a grinder.

I've arrived at the conclusion that most of the HSS is pretty much the same and therefore the choice lies in the details of the profile and handle design. I've now started buying Ashley Isles metal only HSS ie unhandled tools and then making my own handles from Ash (I have a lot of Ash due to a storm damaged tree in my garden). Two reasons, they're cheaper that way and I like longer handles so I get the tool I want at the end for less cost. Having said that, I must have 30 or so tools from the last 4 years from just about everybody so its taken me a while to hone my ideas about what works for me.

So to summarise, I'm not convinced there is much to choose between HSS made cheaply in China and that in a top of the range Robert Sorby tool and in fact I wouldn't be remotely surprised to learn they both come from the same Chinese foundry! But there may be differences, I just don't know. When I've used tools from different makers, they all hold an edge and the only big difference I ever notice is between older carbon steel tools and HSS. Carbon steel tools definitely blunt much faster (but they can be sharpened to a finer edge too, it just doesn't last as long as the harder HSS). Because I don't value the differences in the steels, my basis for deciding has now become the handles and profiles. Because few off the shelf tools have longer handles, I now buy tool steel "naked" and make my own handles, saving money into the bargain.
 
if you do decide to turn your own handles, a couple of comments.

1. Ashley Iles do their full range un-handled- I am not sure whether the others do.
2. Use different timbers for different tools. It is much easier to pick up your skew if you are looking for the tool with the padauk handle, or the scraper if you know that it has the sycamore handle, etc.
3. There is a lot to be said for having a carbide tool in your arsenal. They are easy and cheap enough to make, and you just buy the insert. The downside is that they dont teach you about tool presentation, but by jolly they round a square blank quickly!
 
I've got Record Power, Sorby, H.Taylor, Axminster Premium, Crown, Hamlet and Ashley Isles. I don't think there's a huge difference between them, but by choice I would go for A. Isles. I did read somewhere that for powdered metal Hamlet came out very well in tests. Don't forget you can buy old carbon steel tools for a pittance, and for the less demanding jobs they actually take a better edge - they just don't hold it so long. it is also a cheap way of experimenting with one off form tools. As Bob said, make your own handles. As above - it is to my mind an advantage NOT to have identical handles.
 
Thanks all. I started to try learning about the various grading systems and designations for steel and realised the effort/reward on this was huge for not much.

Assuming all hss is pretty much as good as you need for turning and the rate of metal loss doesnt vary especially much (recognising the point about carbon steel or other types) then I'm sure tool profile and handle are indeed more relevant.

I've been buying Sorby (so I know I definitely cant blame the tool!) but my long hole boring auger needs a (transverse) handle (it has a flat diamond tang) and ash is a good cheap wood (Morgan used to make structural bits of their cars with it, so its good enough for me!). The point about diff woods for diff tools is a good one too.

I'll have a look at the Ashley Isles handle-less kit for my next purchase and see if I can pick up sone old carbon steel ones for fun!

Many thanks.
 
Another vote here for Ashley Iles handle-less tools. It's pretty much all I buy now.

I also have some from Sorby and Hamlet. I had a Hamlet Cryo 1/2" bowl gouge and it maintained an edge slightly longer than my other gouges but probably not worth paying the extra for.

Sorby tools come with a lifetime warranty - I chipped the end of a bowl corer and they replaced it without question (even though it was my fault).

Also consider decorating handles with different numbers of wire burnt lines, different shapes, lengths etc.
 
Thanks again.

Very interesting links too...especially the composition analysis. Hamlet very different indeed and obviously more uniform metal due to the process.

Also interesting to see that the carbide and vanadium compounds have hardness above alu-oxide white wheels ...I've not even thought about my oilstone's hardness (though it's being eroded quite quickly). Now I know why there are dif colour grinding wheels and the cbn wheel etc.

As ever, it seems like a price-'quality' curve from a turning tool point of view...highe price gives harder tools and needs harder media for getting an edge etc. Except carbide which is cheaper but still needs harder media. M2 HSS seems like the right balance for those with white wheels.

Has anyone tried buying known quality steel bars and fabricating tools or is that a bad plan (my blacksmith who made my casting and spinning tools might have a crack at turning tools if its doable from bar) ?

cheers
Keith
 
Making your own tools for carbide inserts is pretty easy and the inserts can be resharpened on a diamond plate easily enough.
 
In the main I would say it will be several years before you are in a position to get a feel for any difference in HSS steel specifications, I know I detected a difference some years ago when doing a Tormek review but I never ever noticed any hardness differences using a dry grinder and nothing that varying wood types don't mask, even then it's more likely that any differences will be down to poor heat treatment during the manufacture of the tools than the purported specification I suspect, regardless of retail source.

As Rob mentioned the tool handle design is the thing that you will find provides the most influence, if you get to a stockists or a show where you can handle a given tool form from differing brands check how the tool feels for balance in the hand, it's surprising how different they can feel.

If you make your own handles, good turning practice in its own right, you may end up with a preference for length, diameter shape etc. but you will probably find that certain tools feel and use better with differing lengths.

If you start turning them based on a tool handle you like to hold, try turning one a little fatter in diameter or grip positions slightly different in location along its length, everybody's hands are different and for us older folks larger diameter handles enabling a slightly more relaxed grip has a better comfort hold than thin handles for instance.
 
Thanks Chas .. I know I like the large Sorby handles and have written to Ashley Isles about steel type to see if its m2 hss (and what rockwell etc) which I guess is where the volume and therefore price point is. Assuming it is, I'll try to make some variants on the Sorby style handle to fit the handle-less tools I eventually get.
 
I use plumbing pipe on mine. In fact one of the little pleasures I get from handle making is the finishing of the ferrule. (I can hear the crys of "you need to get out more"). My 15 or 22mm copper plumbing starts life tarnished and with a burr'd edge from the cut. It finishes bright, shiny and smooth, polished with 0000 wire wool. For some odd reason, I never tire of seeing soft metals respond well on the lathe :)
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... 2250917991

Are as good (cheap) as I've found, and the large ones are big enough for large gouges. personally I think copper pipe looks cheap and naff. I have on occasion used hexagonal compression fittings with the markings and corners taken off, polished and screwed on with a spot of epoxy. They look different, and quite neat.
 
I've used several materials to make ferrules in the past but always avoided copper pipe for some reason. Having seen several professional turners on YouTube use plumbing pipe though I'm more than happy to use it now and think copper looks far nicer than brass! Personal choice I know but copper does the job.
 
One of the things I really like about Copper is how soft it is. Once I've fitted the ferrule, I always leave about 2-3mm of wood on the tailstock side and cut through with the long point of the skew. That finishing cut goes right through the copper and the wood, leaving a perfectly flush fit with the end grain. It's the perfect finish and frankly, looks factory made.
 
Have a look at the number of tools with copper ferrules in the rack behind Brian at the end of this video. :wink:
He's obviously made a lot of his own handles. You only need to watch one of Brian's videos to know he's a top turner.

https://youtu.be/yhuEVVSkDtE
 
You can also make your own collet handles. I've made them in wood as well.

56811494cba0a457b1d6c59fe584177b_zpslfq4jcad.jpg


Most of my home made tools have 12mm shafts so these are perfect with a 12mm collet. You can of course use these with smaller gouges though and are perfect for the double ended ones.
 
Back
Top