Building a long bench - advice wanted

[Markymark]

Hi Mark

Heres a small diagram to show the brace set out that I used (derived from timber frame house constructon):-
:roll:

Thanks again.

I started cutting some tenons for the horizontal rails. I think they have gone well. I made a TS tenon jig which seems to work well (except for the safety of removing the guard ). I tried cutting the mortice by drilling out the majority of the wood with a drill bit and then cutting back the wood with a wide chisel. Cutting through the end grain was a bit difficult to get accurate and the mortice is about 1" off the end of the leg and with softwood i am going carefully as i suspect it may split the end of the leg.

In summary it was hard going manually cutting the mortice. I could of tried with my Router but it does not have enough depth to go the full depth . I'll have to say I am tempted to buy a mortiser already as I have 16 mortises in total to cut just to make the H sections.

I found an article on draw pegged tenons. From the article it talked about drying out the slightly tapered pegs in the oven so when they are introduced to the tenon they expand. Is this how they tighten up?

I feel my bench may take a week to build :lol:

Long live forums. How did we survive without the internet.

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Hi again Mark
Persevere with your morticing, the first few you do are usually slow and messy, but keep practising you will improve I promise 8)
How are you actually doing your mortices? Try to get your chisel as sharp s a fresh razor blade, it helps a LOT!!

I did up a little diagram to show draw pegging

It is an ancient technique in use for over a thousand years in this country at least, and it is a tried and proven method. My neighbour's house was built before the reformation (ie about 500 years old) and is held together with just such pegged joints :shock:
What creates the tight joint is the wedging action of the peg trying to force the out of line holes back into line, its nothing to do with the pegs being dry as such. It is crucial that the peg hole on your tennon is CLOSER to the shoulders than the peg hole on your mortice side is close to the edge, otherwise you end up with negative draw and when you drive your peg it will force the joint apart instead of closing it up!! The hole is first drilled through the mortice side, then insert the tennon, holding it firmly in place. THEN using your drill bit (preferably a brace and bit) insert it into the peg hole in the mortice side, and turn in reverse to make a mark on the tennon. DO NOT DRILL THROUGH JUST YET. remove the tennon, and with your drill bit, position it NOT on the mark, but 3 or 4 mm CLOSER to the tennon shoulders (if your using softwood; use less offset-only 1 or 2 mm-if your using hardwood such as oake) !! THEN drill through the tennon 8) Try to drill as plumb vertical as you can, use a set square as a guide until you get used to it. Your peg should be tapered as per the diagram so you get a gradual wedging action (which a parallel cylindrical peg will not give). Ideally you should use cleft (ie split) wood, oak or ash. Cleft wood follows the grain so you get max strength, sawn wood as in dowels is no use as it will have cross grain which will weaken your peg. A parallel sided peg is no use. They dont need to be circular, octagonal is fine, the facets grip in the hole better. I split mine out of firewood pile, shape with axe and adjust with opinel knife, test fitting in a hole in a oak board till they are correct diameter. It takes only a minute or 2 to make one. Some prefer to dry them out, but even so they will take on moisture from the beams and swell up a bit. I just leave them near the boiler for several days. Also if you overdrive them, you could bust the end out of your tennon :roll: If you need some good pegs PM me I have a good stock of them
Hope this helps, Cheers Jonathan

 

[Paul Chapman]

Great tutorial on pegged M&Ts, Mr S 8)

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Paul
I'm just glad to be able to share some very useful stuff that I have learnt from others!!

 

[Markymark]

Here Here

Just watch this space.

Keep up the good work!!!

Kind Regards

Mark

 

[Markymark]

A few more images I found of Mr S's technique which will soon be adopted in Woodworking benchs everywhere....

and a good example:-

* Tenons usually doesn’t fill mortise height.
* Tenon width is less than mortise width.
* Outside tenon shoulders are undercut - only an outer knife edge touches the stile.
* Inside tenon shoulders don’t touch the stile at all - they are not "in the joint".
* Rails have only one fair face - they are unfinished inside and taper in cross section.
* Stiles have only 2 fair faces and 3 true arrises and their inside arris may be chamfered away.
* Heads of the drawing pegs are proud of the stile faces.

Regards Mark

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Mark

Look at the stresses in that peg in the photo, you can easily see why your pegs need to be as sound and strong as can possibly be!! Cheap dowels wouldnt be able to take the stress and would snap=> failure :shock: The joint in the photo looks to be from a house frame, the second one seems to be more refined like on a medaieaval chest

 

[Markymark]

All the mortices now cut....One a little bit wider than the rest due to rushing while baby sitting the kids....Now the tenons. The problem i seem to be having is getting a nice shoulder cut. The fibres of the wood are very loose and it is hard to get a nice clean cut on all four sides.

I have built a tenon jig for my Table saw which makes the cheek cuts nice and easy. I have tried to get the 100mm timber through the blade in one go while cutting the shoulders but the (unsure of the technical name) piece that splits the timber at the back of the blade keeps catching the timber and so i have to turn it round attempt to line up and cut the over 50mm. I could remove this plate from the TS but it is a right job to change the blade never mind anything else. May be it will be easier and more accurate to just cut the shoulders with the tenon saw?

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

May be it will be easier and more accurate to just cut the shoulders with the tenon saw?Mark

AND broadband for just 16.99 a month.....I should say so :lol: :lol:

Great to hear your motricing has gone well Mark jolly good show old chap 8) . 1 duffer out of 16 for a beginner is exellent
I would agree with your sudgestion Mark, by the time you've messed about with your table saw trying to set it up you could have got all your shoulders cut by hand. Especially if your not conversant and confident with power tool set up and use (no offense, I'm still nervous of power tools). I dont think you should be removing the riving knife [-X Even large shoulders will take only a few seconds to do by hand, if you start to wander its easier to rectify with a hand saw than on the table saw. Of course you did mark out all your tennons first before you started cutting on the table saw (or any saw) didnt you :shock: ?? Dont forget you can always adjust and clean up your sawn tennons by paring with a sharp chisel, especially when yor doing a dry run test fitting, to see if it all goes together, if each joint is square etc. A little adjustment goes a long way.
The mortice thats wide, you could pack the gap with some veneer; or you could cut out the tennon that was due to fit in the over wide mortice and fit a "free tennon" the same thickness as the wider mortice, and adjust the new cut out "mortice" in what was the tennon side to that same thickness so you still get a snug rather than sloppy joint :lol: Effectively you have 2 adjacent mortices with a double tennon joining them. Its used a lot to repair timber frame buildings also as a way to edge join big boards.
Hope this helps cheers Jonathan

 

[Markymark]

I started to cut the cheeks with table saw using a jig I made to hold the tenon vertical. Once I do one cut I flip it keeping the mitre block in the same place and do the other cheek. I found I used my fine tooth tenon saw to cut the sholders and that seems to be working so far. I am currently matching a tenon with a mortice as each mortice is slightly different in width (only slightly). All's well as I can batch cut all the cheeks and then batch cut all the shoulders to get them done in extra quick time.

Did you say commercially available firewood that you buy from the garage is suitable for the pegs?


Thanks

Mark

 

[Anonymous]

The firewood I am talking about comes from a responsible local supplier who cuts hardwood trees from thinning and/or coppicing operations and sells them as cut up 10 inch lengths, split into pieces suitable to fit in the wood birner. He delivers a lorry load and tips them on my front yard. Theres no rubbish among it, no pallets, or anything with creasote in it. I split some of the best of these logs into peg stock and carve pegs from that. The rest keeps my wife and bairns warm in winter!! :lol: :lol:The stuff in neat little string bags from garages (apart from being an insanely expencive rip off) is difficult to know what its like for quality it might be old pallets for all we know :shock: I wouldnt recomend it. Have a look at "how I made my wooden peg's" thead theres some photos etc of peg making, its very satisfying work. Main thing to remember about a peg for draw pegging is it has to be as straight grained as possible so it can be as strong as possible. You could try phoning tree surgeons, they often have logs that they are glad to be rid rather than pay the council for the priveligde of dumping it :roll: :x Just ask for a 10-12 inch diameter log of ash or oak straight and clear as possible, you would only need 2 or 3 foot long and you'd still have plenty over :lol: Or the local council parks dept might be able to help, or if theres a firewood supplier near you.... :wink:
Hope this helps, cheers Jonathan

 

[Markymark]

Excellent,

What a good idea, how many trees over the years have i cut down and disposed of, cherry,beech....why oh why did i not think ahead? I will get on the blower tommorow.


Some of the best ideas grow on trees!!

Ta

 

[Anonymous]

speaking of cherry I once got some perfect cherry logs from the waste tip just happened to be there at the right time :lol: I also got birch logs. I once made a mallet head from a lump of hawthorn I found while out for a walk and some splitting wedges also. Proper little womble me :roll: :lol: :lol: