Best old Lathes

[Rhyolith]

I am after a second hand lathe for tool restorations (making side handles for breast drills, etc...) and ideally need something that can work with wood and metal; cutting screw threads would be immensely desirable as well. I only have 240v power and a caddy for transport, plus I don't intend to turn anything big. I also would greatly prefer something old, those heavy cast iron things (think people will know what I mean).

I would like to know how big a budget I would realistically need for this and are there any old makes to look out for, saved eBay searches to have open, places in East anglia or mid wales to look in, etc...

Advice Appreciated, thanks.

 

[timber]

I am after a second hand lathe for tool restorations (making side handles for breast drills, etc...) and ideally need something that can work with wood and metal; cutting screw threads would be immensely desirable as well. I only have 240v power and a caddy for transport, plus I don't intend to turn anything big. I also would greatly prefer something old, those heavy cast iron things (think people will know what I mean).

I would like to know how big a budget I would realistically need for this and are there any old makes to look out for, saved eBay searches to have open, places in East anglia or mid wales to look in, etc...

Advice Appreciated, thanks.

About £600 should get you a good one.
PM sent

 

[flh801978]

I cant think of any lathe which you can screw cut on ( presumably metal) and be usefull and easy to use for wood turning
Both machines are very diffferent
A simple metal turning lathe with screwcutting on ...lots of cash unless you have lots of room/power for a big old colchester..circa 500 ish smaller lathe more like £1000
wood lathe from £200 ish

Ian

 

[graduate_owner]

If you search fleabag you will probably find a few old Myford or Drummond lathes. The Myford ML 7 or 10 series are likely to be expensive but the older (1940 - 50s) go for typically less than £250, depending on condition. I have a Myford ML4 which is in reasonable condition, with stand ( typically £80) and motorising unit (£60?) plus set of gears for screwcutting (£75?) and a couple of chucks (£40 each?). Those are the sort of prices people ask if you need to buy additional bits, so beware of buying just a basic lathe as the extras can really mount up quickly - try to get a complete (ish) set up - mine was less than £150 for the lot.
What I really like about mine is the spindle thread is the same as my Myford ML8 wood lathe so I can inter hangs accessories (8 x 12 tpi). I was thinking to try some simple ornamental wood turning - if that ever happens!!.

You can sometimes get old Colchester's etc as has been mentioned, but they can be heavy - I have a Colchester Master Mk2 and it weighs in at around 3/4 ton, and you wouldn't want to try lifting the chuck with one hand, but it is a nice machine.

For wood, I would avoid the very cheap NuTool/ Clarke stuff, and if you want to enjoy turning then definitely avoid a drill attachment. You will probably find good makes like Tyme or Record or similar going on fleabag in your price range. The Myford ML8 seems to fetch around £300' these days which I think is a bit pricey for an old lathe.

Whatever you decide, I suspect the previous forum member was right in saying that metal lathes are not ideal for wood turning, although early some ones actually were supplied with a wood turning rest as standard.

K

 

[Rhyolith]

I suspect the previous forum member was right in saying that metal lathes are not ideal for wood turning

Yeah that one of the things I wanted to know. Sounds like I will have to decide which is more important, woodwork or metalwork; probably the latter as I can use my black & decker drill powered lathe for wood already (in a somewhat limited capacity).

The Myford ML 7 or 10 series are likely to be expensive but the older (1940 - 50s) go for typically less than £250, depending on condition.

So is the ML 4 the older one? I prefer older so if its cheaper all the better

Being able to cut screw threads in metal would be perhaps the most useful thing for a lathe to do for me... how versatile is this function though? Can you cut any thread (imperial, metric and all the other weird ones) or is there limitations?

 

[AndyT]

I seriously recommend an eBay alert based on the word "treadle" (with all the mis-spellings you can think of).

I was lucky enough to get a live tip-off which led me to my much treasured old Barnes lathe. It's certainly good for metalwork and thread cutting, and will go just about fast enough for wood if I work hard enough!

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i-blame-roy-underhill-t72124.html

I have seen a few similar treasures come up since. Prices are anyone's guess, but mine was well within your budget. A good combination of cast iron and portability too.

 

[MusicMan]

You can cut almost any thread on a screwcutting lathe if you have the right change gears (the gears that set the ratio between the spindle speed and the leadscrew that controls the tool speed), though you will run into limits at the very fine and very coarse ends. The gear to look out for is 127 tooth, since this will allow you to convert between imperial and metric threads(either way). An old English lathe will probably have an Imperial leadscrew, a continental one will have a metric screw.

Treadle lathes are fun and do work, but I sold mine in favour of a powered lathe, which s far more versatile. Actually I have two old ones, both prewar Boley (German) one of which is screw cutting. Though I am still collecting change gears! However the stiffness and precision are terrific.

Wood cutting on a metal lathe is mainly a question of the right chucking and tooling. Wood wind musical instruments are usually made on these.

Keith

 

[Wildman]

it is a shame this was not posted a few months ago as I sold a drummond round bed with 3ft between centres set up for wood and metal turning, no motor but only £60 including 2 chucks. They are about and the older machines often did come as duel purpose however a modern precision machine is not really suitable if you want to preserve the accuracy. An old myford or drumond even without a lead screw can still be used for screwcutting using die holder or die sets and a coventry type holder. There is currently a boxford TUD plain lathe on ebay that will not fetch what it is worth.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boxford-TUD-L ... SwYaFWcrWm
it has a very good capacity and will probably go for something under £400 which is cheap for what is.

 

[graduate_owner]

Hi again Rhyolith. Yes my ML4 is the old lathe, about as old as me and I'm 66. Drummonds come in two basic forms, one which is a precursor to mine (flat bed) and the round bed variety. As I mentioned, the spindle thread is no problem as it matches the ML8 and chucks etc are available for that. Some metal lathes may have unusual threads. The lathe is just about transportable by one person provided it is taken off the stand. I have not yet tried it for screwcutting ( actually I haven't used either metal lathe much at all since buying them, but hopefully in time.....). Also the entire set up will fit in an estate car, whereas the Colchester needed a trailer and winch.

Don't forget to budget for tooling. You will need a chuck and some cutting tools, plus a grinder for sharpening.


K

 

[graduate_owner]

One more thing, I had a Black and Decker lathe attachment - what a crock of the proverbial. The noise was seriously unpleasant but the worst thing was the draught from the motor which continuously blasts in the face since you are standing the 'wrong' side of it. If you do use it then just be aware that a real lathe is a totally different animal so don't be put off.

K

 

[Rhyolith]

Thanks for all the info everyone, very useful for someone like me who knows very little about lathes

it has a very good capacity and will probably go for something under £400 which is cheap for what is.

Have added this to my watched, though I don't think I will have the money for a while... I am in not rush and want to do my homework before spending this much money :wink:

One more thing, I had a Black and Decker lathe attachment - what a crock of the proverbial. The noise was seriously unpleasant but the worst thing was the draught from the motor which continuously blasts in the face since you are standing the 'wrong' side of it. If you do use it then just be aware that a real lathe is a totally different animal so don't be put off.

I bought the Black & Decker for a £5 at a charity shop, just because... :wink: and a manky 1950-60s drill to power it later at a car boot for £2. I have used a proper industrial wood lathe once, so I know how much better they can be.

I seriously recommend an eBay alert based on the word "treadle" (with all the mis-spellings you can think of).

I had such a search open for a while, but kept on getting endless treadle sheet metal bending things which I have not interest in, and with 30 eBay searches running at once that was just an annoyance; so I deleted it. What parameters work for this? (Categories, used, etc...) or do you just weather the excess results?

I think I will start searching for a small metal working lathe with the screw cutting feature, as I am so often prevented from completing restorations on old tools etc by not having the old threads, for example: breast drill side handles. It seems its work while having separate lathes for woodwork and metal. Metal lathe takes priority as I can make do using just hand tools for wood (just takes ages), whereas I cannot cut threads or indeed do much at all in metal currently.

You can cut almost any thread on a screwcutting lathe if you have the right change gears (the gears that set the ratio between the spindle speed and the leadscrew that controls the tool speed), though you will run into limits at the very fine and very coarse ends.

Are these gears hard to get? Any lathes that are particular good for thread cutting (easy to get the gears for)?

whereas the Colchester needed a trailer and winch.

I have a VW caddy and no lifting kit, i.e. anything that cannot be realistically moved by a couple of people is out of the question... though I might try and arrange something if its really worth it; aka cheap and a particularly good machine.

 

[MusicMan]

The change gears usually come in a set with the lathe but check. I bought a very old lathe in which a number were missing.

But now that you have explained what you want to do, essentially make screws and nuts to fit machines that you are restoring, there is a much easier solution. I would not use a screw cutting facility for this job, as the items do not have to be extremely accurate. Lathe thread cutting I would reserve for items such a spindles, where you need to ensure that the spindle, the bearing shaft and the screw thread are all accurately concentric. A screw or bolt does not have this need.

As Wildman said, you would cut the screws with a die, and the nuts with a tap. You can get tap and die sets quite inexpensively on eBay in virtually any thread standard, and can also easily buy individual ones. Try to get the 'progressive' taps, in which the three (start, medium, finish) taps for each size are progressively larger (i.e. start is under size, finish is on size) as these are much easier to use. Do your thread cutting on the lathe, but use it just to keep the tap or die aligned. For a die you want this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDG-3-MORSE-T ... 1456706729

and for a tap you want:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RDGTOOLS-TAP- ... 56655d9567

(the spring-loaded centre on this fits into the centre V hole that is on most taps), plus a tap holder.

This is also much faster than screwcutting using the lathe drive and gears, and pretty much any metal lathe will do fine.

If you do need to make accurate high speed spindles for your restorations than you need a pretty serious and expensive lathe, and training in how to use it. Plus you might need heat treatment and centre-grinding equipment.

Keith

 

[Rhyolith]

This has appeared on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-COLLE ... SwQItUHXtH

Thoughts?

 

[graduate_owner]

Nice collector's piece. In my opinion not really suitable for your needs because it is missing the top slide, it does not look as if it has much distance between centres and it is pretty expensive. I think you could get a more suitable lathe for less expense - just my opinion.

K

 

[Rhyolith]

...just my opinion.

Thats exactly what I want

 

[bugbear]

Actually I have two old ones, both prewar Boley (German) one of which is screw cutting. Though I am still collecting change gears! However the stiffness and precision are terrific.

I suspect their merit comes from the maker, not the period.

Boley! :shock:

BugBear (with a lovely little Boley bench vice)

 

[Rhyolith]

I suspect their merit comes from the maker, not the period.

I beg to differ... There are certainly good makes and bad makes for tools in general, but I have noticed a almost universal theme in the older the tools are the higher quality they are. There are obviously exceptions, but its a pretty solid rule from what I have used.

 

[RogerP]

If you really only want to turn tool handles a small but very well made wood lathe is the Record RPML300. I've had one for years and it's a properly made all cast iron little lathe ideal for small stuff.

I can't offer a suggestion for a metal working lathe.

 

[DTR]

This has appeared on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-COLLE ... SwQItUHXtH

Thoughts?

Nice collector's piece. In my opinion not really suitable for your needs because it is missing the top slide, it does not look as if it has much distance between centres and it is pretty expensive. I think you could get a more suitable lathe for less expense - just my opinion.

K

Apologies for being pedantic, but the round-bed Drummond never had a topslide; instead the single cross slide could be rotated around a pivot. Another downside of the round-bed is that it doesn't have backgear.

If I may be so bold (and apologies to everyone if I'm crossing a line here), but I will be looking to sell my ML4 soon, having just stumbled upon an ML7. There's quite a few photos of it in action here:

https://gracesilverwood.wordpress.com/d ... ving-vice/

https://gracesilverwood.wordpress.com/nutcracker/

If nothing else I hope it gives Rhyolith some inspiration?

 

[woodfarmer]

You can cut almost any thread on a screwcutting lathe if you have the right change gears (the gears that set the ratio between the spindle speed and the leadscrew that controls the tool speed), though you will run into limits at the very fine and very coarse ends. The gear to look out for is 127 tooth, since this will allow you to convert between imperial and metric threads(either way). An old English lathe will probably have an Imperial leadscrew, a continental one will have a metric screw.

Keith

I cannot for the life of me see what use a 127 tooth wheel would be on my Holbrook. The gearwheel on the main spindle has 42 teeth and I have tried many sizes of gear wheel in a spreadsheet for the leadscrew to try to get a 3.5 mm thread.

best fit I can find is an 87 tooth gearwheel with screw thread gearbox set to 3.5 TPI imperial.