Beech tabletop again! Bare wood has gone shiny.

[Jacquiemalta]

Hi,
I recently posted about finishing my beech tabletop. I have decided on the finish so all is well in that respect.

However, the wood got dented somehow so following advice online, I steamed it out. It has come out well but after sanding with both low and high grit sandpaper, the surface has gone kind of shiny and I'm concerned the stain won't take the same in this area. I block sanded the area with 80 as the area surrounding the dent had raised too of course. I then sanded with 120 to get a decent finish.

However, the area has now gone sort of shiny. It improves if I sand with 80 again but I want to use a higher grit to get a better final finish of course. The best description - the wood looks kind of polished after using 120 and no more dust comes off.

I was thinking about maybe using an electric planer to remove the top surface of the whole top but after reading forums about using an electric planer (which I have but have never used), I realise that is the last thing I want to do; there is no doubt at all that I would make it a lot worse.

Any suggestions please?

 

[CHJ]

How new and sharp is your abrasive, 120 should not leave you with a polished surface, sounds like you are burnishing the surface with a blunt abrasive.

 

[Jacquiemalta]

Brand new sandpaper; I can't understand it.

 

[mickthetree]

Is your sandpaper clogged with debris? If so these will rub on the surface and leave it looking shiny.

Can you take a photo?

 

[andersonec]

DO NOT touch it with an electric planer, electric sander maybe but not a planer, and 80 grit is a little too aggressive to denib, you should really be finishing with at least 240 grit, 320 will give you a nice surface and 420 will give a nice shiny surface on Beech.

It sounds like you have already stained it and then sanded a small area where the dent was, if this is so then the whole thing must be sanded to ensure an even colour, another diluted coat of stain can then be applied to even out the colour, the stain will take even if the surface is shiny (and dry)

Andy

 

[Jacquiemalta]

No, I haven't stained it at all yet. I've got someone coming to belt sand it for me then I'll hand finish it although I'm wary about using grit higher than 120 in case it just goes shiny again. I also built a TV unit from the same wood. I dyed the underneath of the top today and it went a bit patchy (it's definitely dye that I have, not stain). I'm really scared to do the table now!

I'm going to try something different on the underside of the shelf (non of the undersides can be seen as the unit is quite low). I'm going to put a diluted coat of 1:4 poly to white (mineral) spirits on first, possibly with a bit of dye in it too although I haven't decided about that yet. Then afterwards I'll do a proper coat of dye but using a darker shade than I want really, although I'm not too bothered if it does come out darker, as I know that beech doesn't take colour easily. I don't want to keep putting layers on dye on as on my test pieces, one coat looked best.

I was confident about finishing after trying the wipe on poly method but I'm nervous now. I know the wipe on poly is the way to go but it's the dye I'm worried about now! I must say that your comment that stain will take ok on the shiny bit has eased concerns a bit - does this apply with dye too and is this something you have had first hand experience of?

 

[deserter]

I would sand the entire top with higher grades. As you have gone to 120 try 180 next and then 240. It sounds to me as when you have steamed out the dent you have raised the grain in that area and then obviously sanded it smooth. You need to prepare all the top to the same level. Therefore sanding it all to a higher grade should even it out.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[Jacquiemalta]

If I sand it to a higher grade than 120, it will go shiny all over (like a burnished look). Will that surface take dye ok? - it looks kind of like it has a wax or varnish finish on it - very very smooth and shiny as if the grain has closed up completely. It's really hard to explain but that's the closest I can get. When my builder saw it, he said it looked like I'd used old sandpaper and burnished it like the posters above said but I showed him the brand new paper.

 

[CHJ]

What brand of paper are you using, not all brands are equal.

 

[Jacquiemalta]

I live in Malta - you get what you get! The make is SAIT and I use the velcro backed rolls cut to fit my wood block.

 

[heatherw]

If you've steamed out a dent on a surface then you need to raise the grain on all the rest of that surface so that it evens out. I usually do this by taking a well wrung out damp piece of teeshirt and rubbing it all over the surface of the side which has been steamed. After this has dried completely then you can start sanding it as usual, I normally start with 100grit even when belt sanding unless there are serious irregularities to be removed. Sand using a block so you don't get dents and hollows from uneven sanding in one place. If you start with 60 grit it'll take a lot of sanding to get a smooth finish. There shouldn't be a problem with the wood taking stain if it looks polished, so long as it looks the same all over that particular plane of the work.

 

[Jacquiemalta]

Thanks a lot to everyone. I will raise the grain of the rest of the table then bite the bullet and get on with dying it, after sanding of course. Fingers crossed!

 

[andersonec]

Jacqui, Your timber needs to be finished to as smooth a surface as you can get, there used to be a tool available which was called a "Burnisher" this was usually made from Beech or some such close grained wood, it was used after sanding or scraping and it brought the woods surface to a nice, smooth, shiny finish ready to accept whatever finish was going to be applied, any scratches left in the surface will show as soon as you apply a finish.
Your shiny surface will accept dye or oil or whatever else you are going to apply as long as there is no physical barrier, varnish or something of that nature.
You need to sand to at least 240 grit (with the grain)
No need to dilute your Poly more than 50/50 (first coat only)
If you haven't already done so, what type of dye are you using?

Andy

 

[Jacquiemalta]

I've got Blackfriars wood dye - living in Malta I'm limited as to what supplies I can get so it's just your standard products - Colron etc.

 

[Jacquiemalta]

I'm really nervous about this now - I get a knot in my stomach when I think about it I know that sounds stupid but I've been planning this table and TV unit for ages and living alone, I've had to save up to get the wood in the first place. It's got to the point where I'm thinking of leaving the beech in it's natural colour and just finishing it. The thing is it's not the colour I want and if I'd have thought in the beginning that it would have to stay the natural colour, I wouldn't have gone ahead with it.

I tested underneath a shelf of the unit with the dye (I have got small testing pieces of beech and they come out fine but the area is not large enough to give a true picture) and you can see ridges where it's obviously not sanded enough. Is there a way of testing what it would look like when stained? - I wiped it with water to see if there was anything obvious but it didn't really help. I'm going to wipe the surface of the underneath of the shelf with white spirits first to see if that shows any irregularities and I'm sanding really well too.

Should I use a sealer/conditioning coat first to avoid blotching? I can't buy it here so I would have to make it and definitely will use a diluted coat on the edges anyway.

 

[deserter]

Hi there, I've just checked the Mylands website and they seem to ship their water based stains to most European countries. It might be worth sending them an email asking if they would ship to you in Malta.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[Jacquiemalta]

I've been looking in to water based products and also came across gel stains which seem to blotch less.

So, I've just dyed half of the underside of the shelf and I want to cry a little bit I block sanded with 120 then 240 as much as my wrist could take. The colour came out nice but there are terrible horizontal ridges, presumably from the sander used at the timberyard. I went over the areas with white spirits then blended over the whole area but they are still obvious. I couldn't have sanded any more than I did! My plan for the other half of the underside is to block sand from 40 or 60 grit upwards to 240 (highest grit I can get for my block). Then I'm going to go over it with diluted poly, about 1:8 before dying. The way I feel now I want to just paint the bloody thing (I won't though!). When I tried to use an orbital sander to get rid of the ridges, it just made it worse. Would a palm sander be any better?

 

[Jacquiemalta]

OK, so I sanded part of the dyed section with 40 grit where the ridges are and over on to the undyed half in the same area. The area which had been dyed, I then sanded with 120 followed by 240. I left the undyed section sanded at 40. I have then just dyed both sections without a conditioning coat. They both look great! The 40 sanded section is a bit rough to feel but looks good so I went over it with wire wool to smooth it.

So as ridiculous as this sounds, I'm going to dye all the wood with a light oak colour. I'm then going to sand it all particularly where the rides are of course as I'll be able to see them now. I will sand with 40 then 120 and 240 to get the smoothness. Then I'll dye, wipe on poly (several coats either sanding or wire wooling inbetween), wax and stand back and admire In all the hours I have scoured the internet, I have never read anything like this but if it works for me then that's what I'll do. I'm not letting anyone touch the wood with any kind of electrical sander so it'll be hard on my shoulders and wrists and take a while but what the hell, it'll be worth it.

I have also just lightly sanded the dyed 40 grit section with 240 and like the effect that gives too, it really brings the grain out.

Thanks so much to everyone who replied and I hope this gives hope to all new wood finishers out there that things can be salvaged no matter how bad they look. I know the method isn't traditional but life is all about learning new things Thanks again everyone.