axminster cramp heads

[Jasper Homminga]

Hello all,

short version:
I'm looking for a couple of clamp head sets, are these from Axminster any good? Or would I be better of with these from Faithfull or the traditional Record version?

Long version:
I am new to this forum, have been reading this forum for about a year now, but have never signed up. Truth is I spend too much time on the net reading about woodworking as it is. But as you seem like a great bunch of woodworkers and as you're closer to the Netherlands than most other forums, I decided to join regardless.
I have been woodworking for about 5 years and shifted to hand tools (not exclusively, I'm no Adam Cherubini) about two years ago (HATE dust and sanding). Made some rectangular stuff (tables, changing station) and then decided to try my hand at a Luytens bench with an extra curve in the plane of the back. This project nearly killed me, non-straight tenons and curved shoulders. Right now I'm almost finished, I'll show pictures once I'm done. Next project will be two large doors, which is where I'll need the long clamps.

Jasper

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Jasper

Welcome to the forum.

I'm sure somebody will be along soon to give you advice about your cramps/clamps.

Cheers
Neil

 

[wachenga]

Hi Jasper,

I've not used them before myself (even though I have a pair of old Record ones) but from what my tutor at college tells me they are not very useful, in fact he recommends not using them (if you can). Why? Well apparently, no matter how hard the timber you use for the bar, (I machined up some beech for mine) the pressure you need to cramp your work will slowly, eventually crush the fibres in the bar and you will lose some, if not all of the pressure you originally applied.

I know they're more expensive but metal sash cramps are the way to go.

Hope that helps

Cheers

Liam

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Jasper.

The Faithful ones look closest to the Paramo type, which are the ones I like best. Two reasons. Firstly, the holes for the pins angle down so, as the clamps are tightened, the heads are automatically bedded down more firmly on the bar. Secondly, the moveable clamp face is such a shape as to have arms that run either side of the bar which help prevent twisting and other irritating habits. I can't speak for other aspects of the Faithful ones, 'cos I've not used them, but they do look like dead ringers for the Paramos.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

I've always used Record cramp heads (the older version than the latest ones) which I have been very pleased with.

You can never have enough cramps and the only way I could afford to have lots was to go for cramp heads. Also, I think that if you need to use a lot of sash cramps the sheer weight of a lot of all-metal cramps can sometimes be a problem in distorting the thing you are cramping.

Hope this helps

Paul

 

[Jasper Homminga]

Wow, quick responses, another advantage of this forum is that most of us are in the same time zone, meaning you're on-line when I am.

Liam, interesting point, I may have to use steel square section.
Alf, I googled for Paramo, but came up empty-handed (well, found an OldTools entry by Jeff Gorman). Do they still exist or where they taken over by tupperware/rubbermaid or whichever?
Paul, I guess you are trying to tell me the current Record ones are not as good?

Jasper

 

[Evergreen]

Hi Jasper.

Welcome to the forum. Like you, I "lurked" for a long time before joining. These days, I've moved back to 99% hand tools and now my only power tools are a couple of prehistoric B&D corded drills that I use for DIY jobs. I used to have some Record cramp heads but never liked them much because the timber bars would flex when even a small amount of pressure was applied. This meant that the cramp faces were no longer at 90 degrees to the work piece. Having said that, there's always a certain satisfaction in using a tool that you've made or modified yourself and I think this comes into play when woodworkers use homemade cramps. I sold off my old Record cramp heads but if I was buying cramp heads now, I would definitely go for the ones with slots in that pull the head down on to the bar, like Alf suggests.

That Lutyens bench looks, er, a bit challenging. Where do you store it while you're working on it?! My workshop has to double as a garage and so my bench has to fold up against the wall. Work in progress has to be squeezed up against the end wall. or it gets a playful nudge from a Toyota

Regards.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Jasper,

Yes, I think the older Record cramps are better than the newer ones but the newer ones are OK. The older ones had metal pins to hold them onto the wooden bar. These used to fall out at crucial moments, so I replaced them with threaded rod and a nut at each end (similar to the fitting on the newer ones).

I have one set of Paramo cramp heads with the angled slot but personally never got on with them.

I've never had too much trouble with the wooden bar flexing - if the joint fits well you shouldn't have to use too much force and you can reduce the tendency to flex by using deeper section wood for the bar.

The bottom line for me was cost - when I bought my cramp heads in the 1970's I didn't have much money and I needed lots of cramps. The only way I could afford them was to go for cramp heads. However, I've always found them satisfactory and never felt the need to upgrade to metal ones.

Like everything else, if you ask 10 different people you will get 10 different opinions. Why not try to borrow some different types and try them out to see how you get on?

Hope this helps

Paul

 

[Jasper Homminga]

Evergreen, I do part of my woodworking with a former furniture maker, she has more space so most of the work is done there. I do woodworking in our garage as well, but I only about 2x3m of that garage is shopspace, the rest is toys, bikes etc.

Jasper

 

[Waka]

Jaspar

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Alf]

Alf, I googled for Paramo, but came up empty-handed (well, found an OldTools entry by Jeff Gorman). Do they still exist or where they taken over by tupperware/rubbermaid or whichever?

I think they went to the big Toolmaker in the Sky; I expect Scrit knows.

I use cramp heads almost exclusively for sash cramp tasks, and crush factors and bending bars says to me two things; inadequate bar size and too much clamping pressure required for bad joints. (Reading back I see I'm just repeating what Paul says. #-o ) Like Paul I replaced the pins with bolts, and also glued cork to the clamp faces; makes for a very effective clamp set up IMO:

Cheers, Alf

 

[jonny boy]

Hi Jasper,

I have the cramps from axminster that are the same but come with the bars as well, The quality is exellent, virtualy the same as Record 138's and at half the pice.

cheers,
jonathan.

 

[Jarviser]

Jasper, Hello. I think if you are to make projects like the Luytens Bench, your plan is best. Unless you plan on making many more 6 foot long projects, buying ready made metal cramps that long would not be economic, even if you could get them. These loose cramp heads are ideal.
I have started on a dining table project, an unusually large project for me, and I have invested in a couple of cramp heads, one old Record, and one old Paramo, and scarfed together some old 3x1 that I reclaimed from old ranch style bannisters. I now have two 6 ft cramps that will become 3ft ones when I am done. I can't see any performance difference between them. I have faced both with leather from an old satchel.
I doubt if 3x1 timber bars would bend enough to cause a problem. If you have to clamp up that tightly there is something wrong with the joints IMHO. Cramps should hold the joint while the glue sets, they shouldn't iron out bad planing or force tight joints (although sometimes....)

 

[Jasper Homminga]

Hello all,

I have just ordered 6 sets of the Faithfull type from Tool Shop Direct. Even though Tool Shop Direct got good marks here I am still nervous to see how this works out.

I now have two 6 ft cramps that will become 3ft ones when I am done.

Now that is a very good idea, thanks.

If you have to clamp up that tightly there is something wrong with the joints IMHO. Cramps should hold the joint while the glue sets, they shouldn't iron out bad planing or force tight joints (although sometimes....)

Agreed, although the extra umpf has been a great help on the Luytens bench. We were trying to get nine tenons to seat at once (middle of back panel), but they had other thoughts. We put some extra pressure on it and wiggled the assembly about a little and voila the lot seated at once (and caught my gloves in the process :?).

Thank you all for your help,
Jasper

 

[Jasper Homminga]

Just in case anyone would like to order cramp heads of the Paramo type (with slot for the pin) rather than the Record type (hole for the pin). The ones from Faithfull are no longer of the Paramo type. I ordered some from Tool Shop Direct but got the Record type. After some inquiries it seems that although "they are still using the same manufacturer, the design has changed and the type we sent to you [Record type, edit Jasper] is the only one available".
They do have the other aspect preferred by Alf "the moveable clamp face is such a shape as to have arms that run either side of the bar which help prevent twisting and other irritating habits".

They do look and feel solid enough, so they should clamp just fine.

Jasper

 

[colinc]

I use Paramo cramp heads bought from Jaymac in Derby about two years ago, not sure if they still stock them but I'll check.

I bought some lengths of 50 x 25 (I think) 1.6 thick steel box section for a few pounds from a local stockist - also available at B & Q but at much higher cost. I drilled them at about 50mm centres for the pins. I made 4 at about 1000 long.

Together I find they make a useful system, much stronger than I have needed. The only thing with steel is that you need to be careful gluing up as glue + oak + steel = stains. I have covered the upper surface with duct tape now which fixed that issue. I've also found it handy to use o-rings on the pin at the adjuster ens as the do fall out when you're moving them around - usually heading at 1G for your feet.

I must get some more as 4 is ok but like now, they're often all in use until the glue dries - never can have too many they say.

Colin

 

[colinc]

I meant to say also that there's a job lot on ebay - currently £80 for 20 no. 24" cramps in a rack


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sash-cramps-faith ... dZViewItem

colin