Autumn Challenge. THE RESULTS

[Grahamshed]

The results for the Autumn Challenge are now in and are made up as follows.

My thanks to Paul Hannaby, judging the entries must have been a difficult task.
Judge's Scores

As an experiment I have added more of my thoughts as constructive feedback. It would be interesting to hear if the entrants think this is better or worse! Bear in mind that it's just my opinion.

Results (and feedback) as follows -

1. Monkeybiter: Good cup shape, perhaps a tighter curve at the bottom of the cup would have improved it further. Some bruised grain inside the cup (often a difficult area). Captive rings well executed. Thin foot makes the whole piece appear lighter and well balanced. 10 Points

2. Dalboy: An unusual combination and technically challenging. The cup has a nice outer curve but appears detached and incoherent from the rest, perhaps the cage at the top of the stem is too big and separates the cup and stem by too much? The inside of the cup appears flat at the bottom, not reflecting the outer curve. The base is well finished and in proportion. Perhaps the stem could have been thinner with a more pronounced curve? Well finished overall. 8 Points

3. Dennisk: The colour of the stem echoes the colours in the spalting but I'm not sure the foot goes with either. Nice shape to the cup, perhaps a little fussy at the bottom with too many details. Perhaps more curve to the stem would be more coherent with the cup? The detail at the bottom of the stem reflects part of the detail at the bottom of the cup. The foot appears heavy and has a hole in it. Cleanly finished base and well finished overall. 6 Points

4. Castanea: Detail at each end of the stem delineates each element of the goblet and improves the overall look. The foot looks too heavy. A little bruised grain in the bottom of the cup. Cup wall could be a little thinner. Parting off of the foot not cleaned up properly, leaving visible rings. 4 Points

5. Dedee: Cup outer curve is inconsistent. Transition from base to stem could be blended better to avoid the step or perhaps some form of details at the bottom of the stem to divide it from the foot would avoid the problem. Centring the blank away from the pith would strengthen the stem and would avoid the stripe down the stem. Some torn grain under the base - sharper tools needed! 2 points

Steadyeddie: First impression is that the cup seems small in proportion to the rest of the goblet and the stem and foot are quite thick, making the goblet appear heavy. Cup and base appear well finished.

Well done to all who entered. I wish more people would have a go!

Regards

Paul

Entrants' Scores

( Just to explain this, contestants vote for their top 3 to which I allocate 3 ‘votes’ for first, 2 ‘votes’ for second and 1 ‘vote’ for third – rocket science eh ? )
Votes were received from all of the entrants totalled as follows
1st Dennisk with 22 votes = 5 points
2nd Dalboy with 8 votes = 4 points
3rd Castanea with 6 votes = 3 points
4th Monkeybiter with 5 votes = 2 points
5th Sreadyeddie with 3 votes. = 1 point

I would like to thank all the entrants for taking part, I thought the general quality of the entries was very high and would not have wanted to be the one doing the judgeing. I hope you all find Paul’s extra feedback useful.
So ….
Overall Scores
JOINT FIRST place with 12 points each = Monkeybiter and Dalboy

3rd place with 11 points = Dennisk

4th place with 7 points = Castanea

5th place with 2 points. = Dedee

Congratulations to you all. Let us hope there are more entries next time.

Mod Edit:- Original Autumn Challenge entry thread.

 

[monkeybiter]

Wow! Thanks Mr. H, I'm away at the moment but I'll bring the fiver round the moment I'm back, and thanks also to Mr.Shed for uploading, the fact that it was worth it came as a surprise.
Dalboy; maybe we could congratulate each other with a pint in the Old Buttermarket next time I'm down there?
Off now to do a backflip!

 

[Castanea]

Many thanks for the useful feedback - all really helpful. Hopefully some people will feel inspired to knock out a pair of candle sticks for the next one. I'm already playing with designs in my head.
This was my first goblet but more important for me it was the first time I'd drawn a design I wanted and then stood at the lathe and turned the drawing into the finished piece so I'm pretty chuffed that my finished piece is pretty close to the drawing. Next time I'll clean up the bottom - this time I'd reached the point of being happy with the piece and not being prepared to risk b*ggering it up just for the sake of a tidy bottom
Well done to the winners - there were some lovely pieces there - so many different ways of approaching making a goblet!

 

[dedee]

5. Dedee: Cup outer curve is inconsistent. Transition from base to stem could be blended better to avoid the step or perhaps some form of details at the bottom of the stem to divide it from the foot would avoid the problem. Centring the blank away from the pith would strengthen the stem and would avoid the stripe down the stem. Some torn grain under the base - sharper tools needed! 2 points

I very much welcome Paul's additional comments. I work very much in isolation without a woodturning club to go to for ideas, critiques and help so all comments are welcome.

I do suffer from the belief that I do not have an "artist's eye" so getting things to look "right" is always a struggle.

I hope that Paul can help me here and edit my photo perhaps to show what he means by the inconsistency of the cup's outer curve. I am also confused by the comments about the transition from base to stem being blended better to avoid the step. What do you mean by step? As I do not think there is one.
I understand about the pith. I did consider avoiding that in the photo but thought it added a bit of interest to the grain pattern. And yes the base was a little problematic as I could not hold the cup end securely in the chuck - New jaws required.



Many thanks to Graham for organising and Paul for his work in judging. I have some ideas for the next challenge but am petrified about getting two objects to look the same.

Cheers

Andy

 

[Dalboy]

Well done to everyone that took part. And well done Monkeybiter and if you are down this way maybe a coffee.

Thank you Graham for organising this and to Paul for the judging

 

[dennisk]

Just a few comments on the comp. My goblet doesnt have a hole in the bottom, it was an indent to be used between centers, and as i had " painted my self into a corner" so to speak couldnt get rid of it. Viewers here will know I nearly always have some sort of a *** on center bottom, but couldnt figure out, in the last few minutes how to get rid of the indent. the cup is very thin, so no cole jaws or jam chuck. ANy ideas out there? Also I think the math is a bit out, if only contestants could vote, I dont think i could get 22 votes.
Thx to Mr . Shed and Paul, looking forward to the candlesticks, and please support this, Thanks.

 

[Grahamshed]

Just a few comments on the comp. My goblet doesnt have a hole in the bottom, it was an indent to be used between centers, and as i had " painted my self into a corner" so to speak couldnt get rid of it. Viewers here will know I nearly always have some sort of a *** on center bottom, but couldnt figure out, in the last few minutes how to get rid of the indent. the cup is very thin, so no cole jaws or jam chuck. ANy ideas out there? Also I think the math is a bit out, if only contestants could vote, I dont think i could get 22 votes.
Thx to Mr . Shed and Paul, looking forward to the candlesticks, and please support this, Thanks.

Nothing wrong with the maths Dennis........ Something very wrong with the typing though. Should have been 12 'votes'. Sorry.

 

[CHJ]

I hope that Paul can help me here and edit my photo perhaps to show what he means by the inconsistency of the cup's outer curve. I am also confused by the comments about the transition from base to stem being blended better to avoid the step. What do you mean by step? As I do not think there is one.

At the risk of butting in here, I looked at the piece with a view to improving my own output if ever tempted to meet the standards of the turning circles.

I perceive what I think Paul is referring to, for some reason they show up better in the original than my attempts to highlight, I think it's down to the light reflections being more realistic in the original.

I see a slight flattening of the curve as it transitions from the side to the base as opposed to be a constant change in radius as seen in a French curve.

Looking at the reflection on the right in particular on the original, I again see a step change in direction as opposed to a steady change in radius.


I doubt that nine out of ten members of the public would notice or pass comment and you see similar design discrepancies in commercial products but I guess it is these little differences that cause us to say 'Wow' when we see or pick up a particular piece, often without appreciating what it is that makes it seem 'right'.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

That's precisely the kind of detailed positive feedback we get at our turning club. Very specific small details which when corrected and combined over a few months really start to make a difference and I can vouch that they improve your understanding of the "rules" unwritten mostly, of what good looks like.

I would encourage everybody to pay close attention to feedback from folks like Paul and Richard because they sure know what they're talking about. As do veteran non professionals like Chas. You don't get to be a member of the register of professional turners for nothing. This extra focus on the explanation of the detail in close up by Chas is also really useful because it takes a high level piece of feedback and translates it into a do-able action next time you attempt a piece.

In the past I have had to "catch" myself feeling ever so lightly put out by genuinely intended constructive feedback as ones brain has a tendency to slip into "that was criticism". I've seen it happen here many times and also at my turning club. But if one's fragile ego can overcome the battering, actually implementing the suggestions will take ones turning forward in new directions. That was my experience after joining a turning club so for those who don't have access to one, here is of course, ostensibly an online turning club so I rather like the detailed focus on what is meant by improve this and that. It really helps.

I would also add that the standards of the pieces being submitted is getting better every time the competition is run.

 

[Castanea]

"I would also add that the standards of the pieces being submitted is getting better every time the competition is run."

Which is great as far as it goes but I'd rather there were more people entering, not worrying about whether they'll be "good enough", just getting something turned and entered. There are often hundreds of views to posts, sometimes thousands, so something isn't quite right when, despite so many people using the forum, only six enter the competition. I don't know whether having two (or more) classes would help but there must be some way of encouraging more people to take the plunge and post pics of what they've turned so they can get some useful feedback.

Part of the joy of a competition is the number and breadth of entries - it can be inspiring on a good day and make you kick yourself on a bad one when you think "why didn't I think of that". It broadens your aproach and helps to get the blinkers off so that the next time you go to the lathe you might be more able to move out of your pre-conceived groove just a bit.

Just my three h'appenth worth but I'd be all for lots more entries even if some of them are less "polished" and perfect.

 

[Grahamshed]

I will shortly be posting a thread about next years challenges and asking that same question.

 

[dedee]

Thanks Chas And Bob for your thoughts. My shoulders are broad and I do not have an ego so I am more than happy to take on this type of analysis. I hope my asking for a fuller explanation has helped others too. Woodturning clubs are very thin on the ground in France so I am quite happy to use the competition and the comments thereafter to try and improve myself.

Can't say that I am looking forward to the candlesticks. I have thought better of asking what "matching pair" means. My twin girls are technically identical (well 99.999999 %) but there are many differences both on the surface and under.

 

[alexxxbaker]

As someone who entered the bowl competition in the spring and was blown away by the competition and quite rightly scored zero points in the voting, one suggestion for increasing the entry numbers would be to provide feedback on all the entries (not just the top five). I know this is more work for the judges - but it is those of us who didn't get any votes that need the feedback most. Just a thought.
I didn't enter this time as goblets really is not my thing - and been out of action on woodturning all summer with a ruptured achilles. All good now - well at least back on the lathe.

 

[Castanea]

There's a thread here the-woodturning-challenge-2016-t92174.html where that very thought was suggested. It certainly makes entering more worthwhile and it's nice to get feedback.