American v European Oak

[Foggy]

Hi All,

Just starting my journey into woodworking and have decide on my first proper project.
Side table - From Peter Parfitt - New Brit workshop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQaYqTyUBsg

I am planning on buying the wood (European Oak) for the frame from
Good timber Planed
http://www.goodtimber.com/cgi-bin/newbu ... em_21.html

The project calls for the top to made from Veneered MDF - with edging as above.
I have found a local company that supplies American Oak veneered MDF

Everything will be finished with PolyX (3032 Satin-Matt Clear).

My question is: Will using the two type of Oaks show up as a big mismatch - Veneered American Oak and European Oak Edging.

Best wishes.

James.

 

[flh801978]

Make the top out of solid european oak too how bigs the top?
if its the same size as the one in the video it'll cost you far more in veneered mdf than solid unless you get lucky with an offcut
Ian

 

[blackrodd]

As the previous poster has said, make the top from solid English or European oak would be best and
certainly cheapest, unless you can get an offcut, American oak tends to be paler so much will depend on the other oak that you are supplied with, it may well all blend in fairly well.
I would make the top from 2 pieces of solid oak. if need be.
I suggest you make sure you are getting supplied with kiln dried timber for stability, too.
Regards Rodders

 

[RobinBHM]

If you choose to use a sheet of veneered mdf, I would try to see before you buy. There is a lot of variation in colour and quality of grain. Local timber merchant will not always have the best. Veneered mdf in Am Wh Oak will be veneered as an A/B grade, with 1 best face.

Will it match? There is a large colour variation in both European and AW oak, so how well it would match just depends on the timber / veneer examples you obtain. What will show is that the veneer will be uniform, probably with pattern repeats across the board.

 

[custard]

Good question Foggy.

American white oak isn't really the problem, most people would struggle to tell it apart from European oak, especially as European oak is hardly consistent or homogenous to begin with. Furthermore you always get some latitude between horizontal components and vertical components in any piece of furniture.

American red oak is a different matter, it won't blend in at all well with white oak or European oak, and to my eye at least it just looks cheap and nasty.

But building in oak gives you other matching problems. Most timbers have a difference between crown cut boards and quarter sawn boards (so two adjacent faces on a square leg for example often have different grain patterns). In oak the difference is especially stark and not always easy to manage in design terms. So here's a couple of suggestions,

1. Your fixed point is likely to be the veneered oak MDF. Check it's white not red, then see if you can get an offcut. Armed with the offcut try and match your solid timber to it. If you can possibly avoid it don't get into the bad habit of buying timber sight unseen. Getting yourself down to a timber yard and making your selection in person is a far far better way to progress. When it comes down to it a lot of woodworkers are scared of going to timber yards, maybe they're frightened of being laughed at. Yes, some timber yards are intimidating, but most are incredibly helpful. Tell us what area you live in and you're sure to get some recommendations.

2. Think about using a different timber. American cherry and American steamed black walnut tend to be that bit more consistent, they're also a lot easier to work with than oak which is a significant advantage for someone just starting out.

Good luck!

 

[Mr T]

Hi Foggy

One of the problems with this forum is that we are all too helpful. A beginner asks a basic question but gets so many answers it's confusing. I think I may add to the confusion!

I've had a look at the supplier you mention and as far as I can work out they are charging about £167 cu/ft for 1" par oak which seems a bit steep. I don't have experience of par oak but sawn is around £35. It may be cheaper to by sawn and see if you can get it machined yourself, perhaps a local forum member could help.

Peter Parfitt uses a domino jointer, this is an expensive piece of kit for a beginner. In fact all his stuff is Festool, is he sponsored by them? You could cut mortice and tenons buy hand or use a router.

I don't know why he suggests veneered mdf for the top, solid would be better and may be easier rather than the phaff of edging the mdf.

Hope you're not too confused!

Chris

 

[HOJ]

Mr T beat me to it, a very, very expensive way of buying PAR Oak, they will probably charge not just for the bits you get, but the waste as well.

Must be a local merchant your way that has sawn stock, even offcuts, plus you could select the boards you need.

I wish I could help, I had a rack of offcuts, which I have chopped up for firewood rather than move it all to my new workshop.

 

[Foggy]

Thank you for all your responses.

You have convinced me to try joining boards together.

Agreed, long term that sawn stock is much cheaper, but having spent a lot on tools. I am not in a position to buy a thicknesser.
However I just googled if I could hire one and found a local place for (Makita 2012NB) @ 39.00 / day + VAT. So maybe I should look into it.

I just need to find someone reasonably local to Reading for the rough sawn wood. Any suggestions?


Best wishes.


James.

 

[custard]

James, you're in a pretty good place wood wise. Tyler Hardwoods isn't too far away, that's where I get a lot of my basic British timber, but it's a big yard and even though they're very friendly it can be a bit intimidating for a beginner. A bit further away is Surrey Timbers, and they're just about as beginner friendly as it's possible to be, with a nice selection of British and exotic hardwoods in individually priced boards.

There's a lot to be said for sticking to one type of timber for your first few projects, you can buy a bit more in the knowledge any left over can be used in your next project, which means you'll have material on hand to cover any mistakes. The downside is colour variation from board to board. I'll mainly buy consecutive waney edged boards from the same log to overcome this, but that's a bit excessive when you're just starting out!

All timber varies from tree to tree, but kiln dried American Cherry doesn't vary as much as most, plus it's very widely available and it's reasonably stable and tool kindly.

I strongly recommend that you forget about hiring a thicknesser. If you choose modestly sized projects and a fairly easy timber you can handle dimensioning yourself with hand tools. Sure it's a learning curve, but you'll be a much more competent woodworker for having climbed it.

Good luck.

 

[James-1986]

I'm in Reading, give me a shout if you want help with the machining. I've got some 1 1/2" rough sawn american oak that I wouldn't mind shifting, one of the boards was left over from a staircase and 2 or 3 smaller boards from a client who changed her mind.

 

[Foggy]

Custard - Thank you for the recommendations. I'll try and swing by Surrey timbers. The web site looks good.

James-1986 - Thank you for the offer. I'll PM you tomorrow and discuss.

Best wishes.

James