Woodturning History?
- Thread starter Chris152
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treeturner123
Established Member
Chris
This is what the internet is for. Do your research and publish !!!
Phil
This is what the internet is for. Do your research and publish !!!
Phil
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
Well, if you want a single volume encompassing all there is to say about the development of lathes and turned work across the world and all of history, I don't expect there is. The subject is just too vast! It would need to encompass great chunks of furniture and architectural history.
But there are very many books which include relevant material. Some of the earliest works about woodworking are about turning and include a historical introduction, but from a modern perspective, their coverage of contemporary practice is now historical. I'm thinking of Bergeron, Felibien and - more accessible - Holtzapffel. There are links to these in the Downloadable Books sticky.
Edited to add some details, as the sticky is suffering from link rot.
Holtzapffel's historical survey, from 1850, starts here in volume IV of his attempt at a comprehensive survey of tools, materials and techniques of turning:
https://archive.org/details/turningmech ... t/page/n25
Felibien's description of turning is much earlier - 1697 - but is in French.
It does include this nice picture:
and the relevant text starts here:
https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_DF5m ... /page/n301
Bergeron, as far as I can see, didn't cover the history, but does give a summary of turning as it was in 1816. The Internet Archive has two volumes but without pictures as far as I can see. Volume 1 is here https://archive.org/details/manueldutou ... og/page/n4
There is of course much much more, in the world's museums and libraries.
But there are very many books which include relevant material. Some of the earliest works about woodworking are about turning and include a historical introduction, but from a modern perspective, their coverage of contemporary practice is now historical. I'm thinking of Bergeron, Felibien and - more accessible - Holtzapffel. There are links to these in the Downloadable Books sticky.
Edited to add some details, as the sticky is suffering from link rot.
Holtzapffel's historical survey, from 1850, starts here in volume IV of his attempt at a comprehensive survey of tools, materials and techniques of turning:
https://archive.org/details/turningmech ... t/page/n25
Felibien's description of turning is much earlier - 1697 - but is in French.
It does include this nice picture:
and the relevant text starts here:
https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_DF5m ... /page/n301
Bergeron, as far as I can see, didn't cover the history, but does give a summary of turning as it was in 1816. The Internet Archive has two volumes but without pictures as far as I can see. Volume 1 is here https://archive.org/details/manueldutou ... og/page/n4
There is of course much much more, in the world's museums and libraries.
Really helpful - thanks.
Jacob, I'd missed that one and it looks like it might well be worth a read, I'll take a look for reviews.
Andy - I'm looking for a broad history in the first instance, then want to find out what's been done around woodturning as the process became industrialised, and the paths hand-turning (is that the term?!) has taken since then. I couldn't see those authors in the sticky so searched the names individually, but got the message 'Unauthorized access to internal API'. No worries, I'll search the wider web, and really appreciate your comments.
edit to add - Brilliant - thanks for that, Andy! Just need to find my French dictionary...
Jacob, I'd missed that one and it looks like it might well be worth a read, I'll take a look for reviews.
Andy - I'm looking for a broad history in the first instance, then want to find out what's been done around woodturning as the process became industrialised, and the paths hand-turning (is that the term?!) has taken since then. I couldn't see those authors in the sticky so searched the names individually, but got the message 'Unauthorized access to internal API'. No worries, I'll search the wider web, and really appreciate your comments.
edit to add - Brilliant - thanks for that, Andy! Just need to find my French dictionary...
Ok, I've added some links to make my post more useful.
Probably not relevant to your quest, but as I have just found the pictures to go with the Bergeron book I'll post a sample here, as it looks rather fine and useful if you want to cover the fancy stuff
and give this link to the "Atlas" (ie the picture book) available in the Bibiotheque Nationale de France here
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k ... rk=21459;2
Probably not relevant to your quest, but as I have just found the pictures to go with the Bergeron book I'll post a sample here, as it looks rather fine and useful if you want to cover the fancy stuff
and give this link to the "Atlas" (ie the picture book) available in the Bibiotheque Nationale de France here
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k ... rk=21459;2
Sorry, one more book, half-remembered earlier and now found again.
"L'art de tourner" by Charles Plumier, published 1701. The main book is published as a parallel text, in French and also in Latin, presumably so that it could be read worldwide. Fortunately, for us mere mortals, there are lovely high res colour scans available, so we can just look at the pictures and marvel, at the complexity of the work produced and of the chucks and tool holders which made it possible.
This link should lead to an overview with thumbnails of each page, allowing you to pick out the best and zoom in.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85290279
I don't think even Axminster sell this sort of kit -
which is my excuse for not making this sort of stuff
but it's interesting to look back at history and see that it used to be possible. :wink:
"L'art de tourner" by Charles Plumier, published 1701. The main book is published as a parallel text, in French and also in Latin, presumably so that it could be read worldwide. Fortunately, for us mere mortals, there are lovely high res colour scans available, so we can just look at the pictures and marvel, at the complexity of the work produced and of the chucks and tool holders which made it possible.
This link should lead to an overview with thumbnails of each page, allowing you to pick out the best and zoom in.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b85290279
I don't think even Axminster sell this sort of kit -
which is my excuse for not making this sort of stuff
but it's interesting to look back at history and see that it used to be possible. :wink:
Jacob
New Luddism. Awake and resist!
I've got a copy somewhere - I'll dig it out and do a bit of a review in the next day or so.Chris152":mfchpvok said:
I found the illustrations to Bergeron and a PDF of the text (tho the text is cropped, I'll keep looking!). Slightly distracted by Carry on up the Khyber and to-do lists for Christmas, but I'm going to start exploring those links properly when things go calm. Thanks again Andy. :ho2
bobblezard
1 step forward, 2 back, 2 forward - rest - repeat
If you ever get the chance the Musee d'arts et metiers in Paris has a large and fascinating collection of turned artefacts.
Closer to home Local heritage centres often have displays and records relating to local workshops and rural industries.
Traces of history can be found in the strangest places too. One of our local pubs, The tithe barn in Garstang, Lancashire has a large, original, cabinet of tools from a local workshop that closed years ago. Well worth the price of a pint or cup of coffee just to spend 10-15 mins gazing.
I've got a copy of Holtzappfel's book which I find great to dip into.
Good luck with it all, and I look forward to seeing what you dig up
Closer to home Local heritage centres often have displays and records relating to local workshops and rural industries.
Traces of history can be found in the strangest places too. One of our local pubs, The tithe barn in Garstang, Lancashire has a large, original, cabinet of tools from a local workshop that closed years ago. Well worth the price of a pint or cup of coffee just to spend 10-15 mins gazing.
I've got a copy of Holtzappfel's book which I find great to dip into.
Good luck with it all, and I look forward to seeing what you dig up
Robbo3
Established Member
One of the most informative professional wood turners is Stuart King.
He was asked to turn copies of ear studs found on Dartmoor which dated back to the bronze age some 4000 years ago, for a BBC programme.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=907Yyv01VMo
He was asked to turn copies of ear studs found on Dartmoor which dated back to the bronze age some 4000 years ago, for a BBC programme.
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=907Yyv01VMo
This article about the absence of turned pieces in the V&A - and the attempt to address this - is interesting:
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/journals/r ... e-v-and-a/
Seems most of the work considered is form the USA.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/journals/r ... e-v-and-a/
Seems most of the work considered is form the USA.
Interesting article. Thanks for finding that Chris. I especially like the remark
"the problem with filling a gap [in a collection] with an object is that you create two new gaps on either side of it."
- that's true, in my limited experience, and it's a reminder of the way that systematic collections illuminate similarities and differences which would otherwise be missed.
It also reminds me to mention another important collection, many of them made by turning.
Edward Pinto ran a furniture company and was influential in the industry in the twentieth century but he is best remembered for his large collection of small domestic wooden objects - treen - and several books he wrote about it.
Most of the collection belongs to the Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery. It used to be displayed in a dedicated room but since their last rearrangement there are only a selected few objects on display, alongside related items in one of the bigger, more visited galleries.
However, 224 out of some 700 items can be viewed online in the museum's digital collections here:
http://www.bmagic.org.uk/browse/collect ... Collection
This is one of my favourites. As well as showing the historical social importance of turning, it's a great challenge for any modern day turner:
http://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1965T321.1
"the problem with filling a gap [in a collection] with an object is that you create two new gaps on either side of it."
- that's true, in my limited experience, and it's a reminder of the way that systematic collections illuminate similarities and differences which would otherwise be missed.
It also reminds me to mention another important collection, many of them made by turning.
Edward Pinto ran a furniture company and was influential in the industry in the twentieth century but he is best remembered for his large collection of small domestic wooden objects - treen - and several books he wrote about it.
Most of the collection belongs to the Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery. It used to be displayed in a dedicated room but since their last rearrangement there are only a selected few objects on display, alongside related items in one of the bigger, more visited galleries.
However, 224 out of some 700 items can be viewed online in the museum's digital collections here:
http://www.bmagic.org.uk/browse/collect ... Collection
This is one of my favourites. As well as showing the historical social importance of turning, it's a great challenge for any modern day turner:
http://www.bmagic.org.uk/objects/1965T321.1
That's great, Andy. Frustrating too - I used to visit just around the corner from the Birmingham museum/ gallery a couple of times a year but no more! I had no interest in working with wood at the time, so never looked for it, but think a trip might be on the cards before too long.
Looking at museum collections may be the way to go with this - it seems the literature's really fragmented (tho online documentation's brilliant, too). Searching Pinto as I write...
Looking at museum collections may be the way to go with this - it seems the literature's really fragmented (tho online documentation's brilliant, too). Searching Pinto as I write...
