Why are some router tables made up of cast iron but not others?

[Delaney]

What a ridiculous argument! I get it if you are working as a chippy etc but most of the folks on here are hobbyists and do this stuff in their spare time.

The cost of the tools required to build this (or any project) is virtually irrelevant. I didn’t buy my circular saw to make this project and then throw it away, it will be used for many projects and given that I’ve had my saw for over 20 years I’d say the cost per project is very low. Yes, I used my Domino but I didn’t buy it especially for this and could have easily built it without.

It took me a few hours to build it but that was time I’d have otherwise been reading or watching TV so I don’t place a value on it.

In a commercial environment time is money but in our home workshops time isn’t valued in the same way. If it was none of us would ever make anything as it’s almost always cheaper to buy it from some god-awful tat shop.

I agree that a retired person doesn’t have to consider his or her time, in such a manner but too many people do not consider their time In such a manner.
For example, you’re a single person so your time is linear. If you’re working on ‘x’ than you cannot be working on ‘y’. You don't have other people who can work on things for you.
That’s where buying something comes into it. You’re not just buying a product. You’re paying a company to rent a workshop, to hire workers, to train worker's, to create supply chain relationships and to get them to make something for you to do a job, that improves the use, of your linear time.

I’d be interested to see a router table, stand and fence that was made in a few hours.

 

[MikeK]

It cost you more than £100
Sounds like it took you about 2-3 days to build .
If you value your time at say £150-200 a day, that’s a £500 table on average.
So real costs is about £600.

I once watched a youtube video where this american was bragging about how you can make a bench for $150
He had though about $6000 worth of tooling to do it.

People who place value on how cheaply they made something, often place no value on their time, the tooling they bought to achieve it and other such important cost factors.

You coukd have bought this and spent the 2-3 days making money instead.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17632533...ayj2uzvqnc&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I read through most of your posting history, and you appear to have come a long way in your workshop expertise in nine months (I did watch your video before it was removed two days later). I think it is unreasonable to assume that every member here is a professional, say a jazz guitar manufacturer, seeking the best way to economize time in pursuit of income.

It is more likely that most of the members here are hobbyists looking for the best way to balance their available funds to equipment that will accomplish their goals, which could be nothing more than personal entertainment. For others, the journey might be more important than the finish line, as is certainly the case with me. I have a very well equipped workshop, and if it takes me a week to build a bird feeder while I contemplate the expansion of the universe, so be it. My sunk costs (as opposed to investment) for tools and equipment are not important to me, and my philosophy is buy once, smile a long time.

When I am considering a shop purchase, I research what is available to meet my requirements. In the case of a hand tool workbench, I could have built a suitable bench with the tools and machines I had at the time and the lumber available locally. Fortunately, one of the hardware stores in my area had a Sjöbergs Elite 2000 at a considerable discount, so I bought instead of made. In the case of an assembly workbench, I couldn't find one that suited me, so I designed and built my own. Both have served me well so far, and given the same conditions and opportunities to start over, I would make the same choices. The total income received to offset the combined cost of these two benches is...wait for it...nothing, nada, zilch. However, the enjoyment I receive from using both on my trivial projects is priceless.

 

[Yojevol]

I agree that a retired person doesn’t have to consider his or her time, in such a manner but too many people do not consider their time In such a manner.
For example, you’re a single person so your time is linear. If you’re working on ‘x’ than you cannot be working on ‘y’. You don't have other people who can work on things for you.
That’s where buying something comes into it. You’re not just buying a product. You’re paying a company to rent a workshop, to hire workers, to train worker's, to create supply chain relationships and to get them to make something for you to do a job, that improves the use, of your linear time.

I’d be interested to see a router table, stand and fence that was made in a few hours.

I think you should read 'WHY WE MAKE THINGS AND WHY IT MATTERS' by Peter Korn:-
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9781784705060/Why-Things-Matters-Education-Craftsman-1784705063/plp

Brian

 

[Blackswanwood]

I agree that a retired person doesn’t have to consider his or her time, in such a manner but too many people do not consider their time In such a manner.
For example, you’re a single person so your time is linear. If you’re working on ‘x’ than you cannot be working on ‘y’. You don't have other people who can work on things for you.
That’s where buying something comes into it. You’re not just buying a product. You’re paying a company to rent a workshop, to hire workers, to train worker's, to create supply chain relationships and to get them to make something for you to do a job, that improves the use, of your linear time.

I’d be interested to see a router table, stand and fence that was made in a few hours.

You obviously know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

 

[Delaney]

I read through most of your posting history, and you appear to have come a long way in your workshop expertise in nine months (I did watch your video before it was removed two days later). I think it is unreasonable to assume that every member here is a professional, say a jazz guitar manufacturer, seeking the best way to economize time in pursuit of income.

It is more likely that most of the members here are hobbyists looking for the best way to balance their available funds to equipment that will accomplish their goals, which could be nothing more than personal entertainment. For others, the journey might be more important than the finish line, as is certainly the case with me. I have a very well equipped workshop, and if it takes me a week to build a bird feeder while I contemplate the expansion of the universe, so be it. My sunk costs (as opposed to investment) for tools and equipment are not important to me, and my philosophy is buy once, smile a long time.

When I am considering a shop purchase, I research what is available to meet my requirements. In the case of a hand tool workbench, I could have built a suitable bench with the tools and machines I had at the time and the lumber available locally. Fortunately, one of the hardware stores in my area had a Sjöbergs Elite 2000 at a considerable discount, so I bought instead of made. In the case of an assembly workbench, I couldn't find one that suited me, so I designed and built my own. Both have served me well so far, and given the same conditions and opportunities to start over, I would make the same choices. The total income received to offset the combined cost of these two benches is...wait for it...nothing, nada, zilch. However, the enjoyment I receive from using both on my trivial projects is priceless.

The reason why I posted what I have is to open a discussion on the value of things.
A plurality of ideas and approaches to things is important. It’s not about who’s right or wrong.

My passion is modern British industrial design (1950’s) and I have collected quite a few books from that period and hope to make some old fashioned Tv sets, chairs and desks in that style.
Guitars in and of themselves are a passion project and not one likely to make me wealthy. In fact most likely to fail.

When I was working on site people often asked why I invested so much back into my equipment but then I became one of the highest paid decorater I knew, with no experiance and only being in the trade for a few months. I had a spray gun because I could see the potential and people wanted to hire me to train them. I only bought one to spray some architrave at home.
£600 on some architrave!! You could imagine what people said?
“You must be mad” - “more money than sense” (although I was broke). “You need to think about the return on investment” etc.. all the things the average person says here (and probably wisely so).

It’s all about a state mind and I just wanted to share mine.

I simply want to turn my passion into a business, so I understand the importance of doing what you love. I also understand that to make that sustainable, you need think big and to think clever. I’m not saying I’m smart but I am keen to survive.

I agree with your assertion regarding demographics but I’m not writing for that audience and in the grand scheme of things, that’s ok.

 

[Yojevol]

The reason why I posted what I have is to open a discussion on the value of things.

A valid reason for a Post why hijack this thread?
Start a new one with a relevant title and grab the attention of a much wider congregation
Brian

 

[Delaney]

A valid reason for a Post why hijack this thread?
Start a new one with a relevant title and grab the attention of a much wider congregation
Brian

one or two posts debating with someone the merits of a home made build vs buying, in a thread about router quality, is not a really a derail. Maybe a side discussion that if left to a few posts, is pretty harmless.

It is true though my comments have sparked a discussion that have snowballed into a derail but I don’t think blaming me alone is quite fair.

I agree let’s get back to routers (although I think the Op’s question has been answered).

 

[cowtown_eric]

my first router table had a rather flimsy surface, but it was "cheap"

Router weight caused it to sag excessively

2nd one had a more substantial table, but after a few years, weight caused it to sag too!

same for 3rd one....

Never had that problem with a cast-iron table!!!

 

[Delaney]

my first router table had a rather flimsy surface, but it was "cheap"

Router weight caused it to sag excessively

2nd one had a more substantial table, but after a few years, weight caused it to sag too!

same for 3rd one....

Never had that problem with a cast-iron table!!!

The down side with CI is that it has to be seasoned and machined flat to begin with and the most commonly sold CI tables, are by the likes of Axminster. There’s can be all over the place and start off less flat than a well supported phenolic, mdf or valcromat table.

I think a well braced table should be good enough, depending on the size of the router harness and or lift mechanism, unless your router was well supported/braced?

 

[Spectric]

I think one way of summing up why people make this or that is simple, we enjoy the jourmey as much if not more than the destination.

 

[Delaney]

I think one way of summing up why people make this or that is simple, we enjoy the jourmey as much if not more than the destination.

I fully agree and understand that, as someone who studied music.
When the conversation crosses over (as it often does) into the realm of “don't buy one make one, I made mine and it only cost me x”, that’s a different discussion imo and warrants a cross examination on ‘real’ costs and viability/false economy, for those looking to make money.

 

[Jake]

warrants a cross examination on ‘real’ costs and viability/false economy... ,for those looking to make money.

That's the key though in your last sub-clause, must be 90%-95% on here who make things out of interest rather than for a living. It's a hobby, at weekends etc. It's not territory where opportunity cost analysis applies.

 

[Ed Weber]

I have to agree with Delany on this.
Many people hobbist or not, don't put a value on their time.
I build things because I can but also can't always be consumed with building something that will take x amount of time in some cases. Purchasing is sometimes the better option, even if you can build yourself.
I built my router table about 20 years ago and still use it regularly. I built it because I wanted a larger table than was/is available retail. My table is 4' long, I don't have to get out roller stands overtime I rout something 3' long.

Look at the YouTubers, I frequently see videos that go something like this;
This widget only cost $10 to make and will save you hundreds.
So, 6 hours of "work", a half a sheet of plywood, I just had laying around, 5 zip-ties, a half a roll of duct tape 3 hose clamps, 2 band-aides, 3 trips to the hardware store, a dozen screws, a half a can of spilled paint, 2 rolls of paper towels, a T-shirt and all it cost me was $10.

 

[gyuunyuu]

Thank you everyone for taking time out to shed light on this subject