what are CLIFTON doing.....

[Fromey]

Fomey, do you have a link to the saw that was rubbish? What was so bad, the handle, how it was set?

I bought one of these rip saws (22") http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... ml#SID=529

I hadn't noticed the handle but Chris pointed out it was an uncomfortable design. I suppose that's a matter of taste. The main defect is that the teeth are stamped out and that's it. It's pretty clear from the curved gullet that no/little sharpening has occurred (I'm sure at the time I purchased it back in 2010 it claimed to be "hand sharpened"). The set was irregular when I got it and I've attempted to regularise it. However, it saws about as well as a ripe banana and so sits gathering dust in my shed. It's on my list to experiment with as my first saw sharpening experience.

I should have added the caveat that my summary above is based on single experience and so may not be representative (I've also had one duff QS plane, but I still trust their quality).

The response above from the company is welcome and promising. I look forward to hearing the positive reviews in the future.

 

[MIGNAL]

Isn't perception strange. The finish on a Veritas is very lumpy and I can only recall it being mentioned once - some 8 or 9 years ago. The only time I've ever heard anyone say Veritas Planes have a poor finish. But of course everyone thinks that Veritas are of superb quality. . . so no one really mentions it, yet they are free to have a go at Cliftons hand forged mark. Now you are going to get your very precise, laser engraved 'Clifton', just like the way Lie Nielsen blades are marked. How utterly safe and utterly boring!

 

[Plumberpete]

I have a Clifton #4 plane which I find gives much better results than any of the Stanley or Record #4's I have tried.
I haven't used a LN or Veritas plane so can't comment on those.

As far as the wonky stamp is concerned, if I wanted to put my Clifton plane in a showcase or to spend my time poring over it with a magnifying glass instead of using it, then this might cause me sleepless nights. But as it is, how it performs and feels in the hand is 99% - if not 100% - of what I look for in a plane.

While we're at it - if anyone has a set of 18th Century John Green oval bolstered mortice chisels with the name stamped wonkily on the side that they're thinking of chucking out, can I have them? :wink:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No one would buy a Japanese motorcycle that was as unreliable as a Harley, no on would buy a Japanese motorcycle that had a clutch that sounded like Ducati's bucket of nails - but Harleys and Ducati's still sell. If all there is to argue about is a name stamp that in no way affects anything, life must be grand. I think personally that non standard is rather attractive - but, as above, perception is a strange thing.

 

[MIGNAL]

Well if you go over the responses, this is the conclusion:

They don't want the wonky hand forged stamp.
They don't want the two piece chipbreaker.
They dont want the lumpy finish.
They don't want the rear tote as is.
They've already removed the Green finish.

Right. They've taken all that is Clifton out of the Clifton. Logic states that you may as well go buy a Lie Nielsen!

 

[undergroundhunter]

Well if you go over the responses, this is the conclusion:

They don't want the wonky hand forged stamp.
They don't want the two piece chipbreaker.
They dont want the lumpy finish.
They don't want the rear tote as is.
They've already removed the Green finish.

Right. They've taken all that is Clifton out of the Clifton. Logic states that you may as well go buy a Lie Nielsen!

Well said!

 

[Fromey]

They do have a Bedrock mechanism but with Bailey curved side walls (aesthetics). Plus the iron is forged in a unique way.

 

[bugbear]

Well if you go over the responses, this is the conclusion:

They don't want the wonky hand forged stamp.
They don't want the two piece chipbreaker.
They dont want the lumpy finish.
They don't want the rear tote as is.
They've already removed the Green finish.

Right. They've taken all that is Clifton out of the Clifton. Logic states that you may as well go buy a Lie Nielsen!

You forget they want the prices lower.

BugBear

 

[paulm]

I have several of the Cliftons, 3, 41/2, 51/2, 7 and love the green paint on them, no lumpiness on mine ! I honestly think it's a significant mistake to change that. They will still be very good planes, but the aesthetics are part of which differentiates them from other top end planes, and the new colour in the picture does nothing for me, Unnecessary tinkering imho.

Should say that I sold a bunch of LN planes once I had my Cliftons, they all performed well but I preferred the handling and aesthetics of the Cliftons, just a personal thing I guess.

Cheers, Paul

 

[thomasflinn]

Please note, I never mentioned the two piece cap iron!

 

[MIGNAL]

I honestly think it's a mistake to change anything on them. Of course it goes without saying that the important quality control aspects should be rigorously enforced. Lumpy green paint and wonky stamps are part of the visual appeal IMO and have zero bearing on the function of the plane.
I can't say I've ever heard a complaint about the paint but then again I'm not party to Clifton/Flinn's complaint department. I think this is much more about perception and marketing. The problem (and it is a very real problem) is that once opinions and perceptions are formed (however false) they become very ingrained. It can be mighty difficult to change them.
One thing I would change is the quality (perhaps?) and size of the photo's on the Flinn web page. They are simply too small for advertising purposes. Compare them to the larger photo's on the Axminster site of Lie nielsens (their paint looks a little lumpy too!).

 

[iNewbie]

What were you saying about obsessive compulsives... Use the computers zoom function.

 

[MIGNAL]

:roll: Bit of a difference between the alignment of a stamp and the size of a picture! One is an integral part of the product the other is a form of advertising. Dear me!

 

[Andrea]

It is a common opinion that you British you do not have very good taste in the choice of colors (except for the amazing pastel colors of the clothes of His Heighness your Queen). So I did a poll on an Italian forum and the 100% (6 of 6) says that the dark gray is better than dark green.

http://www.legnofilia.it/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13140

;-p

 

[bugbear]

It is a common opinion that you British you do not have very good taste in the choice of colors (except for the amazing pastel colors of the clothes of His Heighness your Queen). So I did a poll on an Italian forum and the 100% (6 of 6) says that the dark gray is better than dark green.

http://www.legnofilia.it/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13140

;-p

Heh. Excellent! :lol: :lol:

BugBear

 

[iNewbie]

:roll: Bit of a difference between the alignment of a stamp and the size of a picture! One is an integral part of the product the other is a form of advertising. Dear me!

Theres no difference if its an issue for you!

 

[jimi43]

It is a common opinion that you British you do not have very good taste in the choice of colors (except for the amazing pastel colors of the clothes of His Heighness your Queen). So I did a poll on an Italian forum and the 100% (6 of 6) says that the dark gray is better than dark green.

http://www.legnofilia.it/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13140

;-p

Compared with the Italians the entire WORLD has awful taste...this is a well known fact and therefore a complete non-starter...however...........

If Clifton employed an Italian designer to create a new plane instead of hashing out a 100+ year old design then maybe we could be onto a winner. :wink:

Or not... :mrgreen:

Not that there's anything wrong with making things to an old design....

Jimi

 

[Racers]

+1 Jimi

I love my Alfa

Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There again, Italians designed Vespas and Lambrettas - ridiculous looking things.

 

[Andrea]

If Clifton employed an Italian designer to create a new plane instead of hashing out a 100+ year old design then maybe we could be onto a winner. :wink:

Or not... :mrgreen:

Nah, the Clifton are fine as they are.

Well, maybe the Lee Valley should employ a designer. I do not say an italian one, just a designer.