Toothed blades for bevel-down planes

[swagman]

Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?

Hi Adrian. By making the bevel angle higher there is a better chance the full depth of groove will penetrate the wood surface.The wood fibers should then remain in front of the cutting edge, and be forced into the mouth opening.

The change in effort to push through the planing stroke shouldn't be that great a problem. Just remember to lift the plane away from the work surface at the end of each stroke. That way your less likely to drag the wood fibers into the back of the blade.

If you still have reservations, limit the change to 5 degrees and evaluate the difference. Don't forget to open the mouth a bit more also.

regards swagman.

 

[adrian]

Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?

Hi Adrian. By making the bevel angle higher there is a better chance the full depth of groove will penetrate the wood surface.The wood fibers should then remain in front of the cutting edge, and be forced into the mouth opening.

I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't the depth of cut determine the depth of groove penetration independent of the bevel angle?

Don't forget to open the mouth a bit more also.

The mouth is all the way open.

One idea I did have was that initially the wood had scallops left by a fore plane with a rounded blade. I was using the toothed plane across these scallops. Perhaps the chips from the toothed plane were falling into the troughs and getting caught by the back of the mouth later. As planing continues, the board gets flatter, the scallops are removed, and then there's nowhere for the chips to go but up on top. Or at least it's harder for them to get underneath.

 

[Paul Chapman]

One idea I did have was that initially the wood had scallops left by a fore plane with a rounded blade. I was using the toothed plane across these scallops. Perhaps the chips from the toothed plane were falling into the troughs and getting caught by the back of the mouth later. As planing continues, the board gets flatter, the scallops are removed, and then there's nowhere for the chips to go but up on top. Or at least it's harder for them to get underneath.

I don't think that's the problem. For those of us who use toothed blades to prepare rough, sawn wood, it's standard practice to knock off the high spots with a scrub or other heavily cambered blade, then follow with the toothed blade.

I'm still rather baffled by your problem, but coming to the conclusion that a bevel-down toothed blade with modified cap iron like I use is a better option than a bevel-up plane with a toothed blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Karl]

Can somebody please reduce the image sizes - it's a real PITA having to scroll across the screen to read a post.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

Just another thought, Adrian - are you making any attempt to remove the shavings while planing (eg by flicking the plane over so the shavings drop out) or are you just carrying on until the plane clogs?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Mikey R]

Heres mine, made from a rock maple offcut. Its still a bit rough and needs tidying up a bit:

The blade is bedded at 60 degrees, mainly becuase I cut the bed before I had a protractor, and 60 degrees is an easy 2 : 1 gradient. Otherwise I would have gone with 55 degrees.

Ive used a toothed blade for a no 9 1/2 block plane from Ray Iles. As a chip breaker isnt needed, this seemed like a good idea - it was the only thicker toothed blade I could find without spending a huge amount and a Lie-Nielsen. Its 44mm, so same width as a scrub plane.

Mine jams too, but I think thats because the mouth is too rough and narrow, and because I didnt allow enough space before the wedge. A little redesigning should fix it

 

[swagman]

Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?

Hi Adrian. By making the bevel angle higher there is a better chance the full depth of groove will penetrate the wood surface.The wood fibers should then remain in front of the cutting edge, and be forced into the mouth opening.

I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't the depth of cut determine the depth of groove penetration independent of the bevel angle?

Don't forget to open the mouth a bit more also.

The mouth is all the way open.

One idea I did have was that initially the wood had scallops left by a fore plane with a rounded blade. I was using the toothed plane across these scallops. Perhaps the chips from the toothed plane were falling into the troughs and getting caught by the back of the mouth later. As planing continues, the board gets flatter, the scallops are removed, and then there's nowhere for the chips to go but up on top. Or at least it's harder for them to get underneath.

Hi Adrian. The core problem gets back to the grooves on your toothing blade being fitted back the front. These grooves assist the direction of the wood fibers into the mouth opening.

Best advise. Put the normal blade back into this plane, and look at fitting the toothing blade into another plane that will take it with the grooves facing the front.

regards swagman.

 

[bugbear]

I'm still rather baffled by your problem, but coming to the conclusion that a bevel-down toothed blade with modified cap iron like I use is a better option than a bevel-up plane with a toothed blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.

I think this is what Karl has in one of his wooden planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Karl]

I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.

I think this is what Karl has in one of his wooden planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here

Hi Karl,

Thanks for posting that picture. How do you find the performance of the bevel-down toothed blade in the wooden jack compared with the bevel-up toothed blade in the Veritas you referred to earlier?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Mikey R]

Can somebody please reduce the image sizes - it's a real PITA having to scroll across the screen to read a post.

Cheers

Karl

I agree - 1728px × 1296px is too big for most monitors I think!

 

[Karl]

Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here

Hi Karl,

Thanks for posting that picture. How do you find the performance of the bevel-down toothed blade in the wooden jack compared with the bevel-up toothed blade in the Veritas you referred to earlier?

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Tricky one Paul.

The jack gives a good cut and has significantly less clogging, but is tiring work for heavy stock removal.

The BU blade is better quality, thicker and removes more stock quicker than the wooden jack. But this clogging problem is a real issue - you can spend just as long cleaning the blade and plane of debris as you can planing.

In use I don't have a favourite. I go for whichever is sharp at the time!!!

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks, Karl, that's interesting. I tried out Deneb's LN with bevel-up toothed blade at West Dean again this year and I'm convinced that my bevel-down blade with modified cap iron in the old Record #7 works just as well, if not better, so I'm quite happy with what I've got.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Karl]

I might do a little comparative test - the woody & a record no5 with the bevel down blade v's the LV LAS with the BU blade.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Paul Chapman]

Good idea, Karl I'd be interested to see the results of that.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MIGNAL]

Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.

It doesn't clog but I find the blade (at 25 TPI) a little too fine. It was clearly intended for the preparation of the substrate in veneering.
I have ordered one of the coarser Kunz blades.

 

[Mikey R]

Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.

Hi Mignal, thats a nice plane! Is the sole a separate piece laminated to the body? What species did you use?

Also, could you post a copy of the mouth of that plane? I think Ive got mine far too tight, which is whats causing the jamming.

 

[bugbear]

Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.

Since you carefully say "blade" do I gather the plane is self-made?

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

Yes, it's homebrewed. Bubinga with Rosewood sole. The mouth is quite wide - some 3 mm's from the edge of the blade to the edge of the mouth - blade in situ of course.
Mike - that Ray Iles blade looks quite coarse at around 10 TPI ? I guess it's going to produce thickish strings and remove material fairly quickly. Years ago I made a toothed blade out of a small file, intended for a small violinmakers thumb plane. I simply filed a few grooves with a needle file and then rehardened the blade. It's still around somewhere. Probably about 6 TPI!! It actually worked and worked quite well if my memory serves.