Skelton dovetail saw pass round.

[Harbo]

I modified my Gramercy ones from their original designs and rounded them off more:

Final shapes:

Rod

 

[bugbear]

Intriguingly the "finished" Grammercy DT saws on their site look more square in profile, albeit with well rounded arrises, almost the "fault" I accuse first time makers of.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... vetail_Saw

BugBear

 

[Berncarpenter]

Excellent start Graham very well written work unlike my post :mrgreen: Personally i like the crisp lines of the handle and especially this part

Looking forward to part 2

Cheers Bern

 

[jimi43]

Excellent start Graham very well written work unlike my post :mrgreen: Personally i like the crisp lines of the handle and especially this part

http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b544/BernardBillsberry/DSC_0415_zps79383b4a.jpg[/img

Looking forward to part 2

Cheers Bern :D[/quote]

I'm with you here Bern...but my favourite transition is between the rear of the back and the handle (pic above).

Lovely stuff.

Jimi

 

[G S Haydon]

For the record Bern, my writing is of no consequence when compared with your work! Stunning results by you as always. Good shots of the handle to, there are so many nice touches it's a job to capture them all!

 

[matthewwh]

I am extremely privileged to be among the first people in nearly 200 years to hold in my hand a brand new, genuine, handmade, English, Georgian dovetail saw.

Without wishing to overstate anything, this is one of the most important hand tools I have encountered in ten years. You only need to google Georgian furniture to see what the effect was the last time woodworkers enjoyed this experience.

As well as being a functionally flawless precision instrument the Skelton dovetail saw is both a gorgeous object in its own right and an exquisite demonstration of the deep levels of perfection that can be achieved by a skilled person working entirely with hand tools.

Consider the elegant lines of the hand rasped handle, the way that they flow gracefully from one radius to another throughout the sweep of the handle before blending into a crisp ridge that continues all the way around the teardrop to the spine.

At the handle transition, the flat surface blends into a deeply concave one whilst also turning through a 90 degree corner, the transition subtly echoed by the stopped chamfers on the brass back (which is shaped from solid brass bar entirely with hand files).

This saw is the physical embodiement of everything that our society has sacraficed on the alter of mechanised volume production. We routinely see British and Irish craftsmen working to this level of quality in handmade furniture, gunsmithing, and instrument making, but to find it in toolmaking is something quite rare and very special indeed.

I love the way that Shane has proudly used his family crest for the medallion. He has clearly put 100% of himself into these saws and while his acquired experience as both a gunsmith and a cabinetmaker shine through, the family crest gives a respectful nod both to the standards and skills he has inherited and to his family's support.

So what's it like to use?

The handle fits my hand precisely, the hang is perfect for accurate work, and it is the only saw I have ever used where the transition from the 'scalpel' grip (with thumb and forefinger to place the kerf) to the 'milking' grip (squeezing gently with the little finger to minimise influencing the saw while it follows the kerf) involves no movement whatsoever - just a slight, barely noticeable transfer of pressure.

The best way I can describe the difference that all this makes, is to say that this saw returns your handshake - rather like the difference between shaking hands with a mannequin and a real person. Through that richly informative connection comes a crystal clear live feed of all the subtle nuances that the saw is experiencing at the toothline.

I had always believed that the slight cant of the blade was there to allow you to cut down to the line on the seen side with the reassurance that you have a little touch of safety margin on the unseen reverse face of the timber. Talking with Shane I have now learned that it is included to provide a faster, smoother cut for a given pitch, each tooth 'seeing' a small measure more of the timber than the preceding one and acting as a limiter to feed the next tooth. What I had thought to be the purpose turns out to be a fringe benefit - we never stop learning.

The bottom line?

I managed to last three hours before I gave in and called Shane to order one for myself. After a wonderful chat and some emailed photos, I am now the proud and delighted first custodian of saw number 9, which I will covet and treasure.

 

[jimi43]

Superb review Matthew and there are some phrases and analogies there which I truly wish I had thought of.

They described my emotions superbly..the best being "The best way I can describe the difference that all this makes, is to say that this saw returns your handshake - rather like the difference between shaking hands with a mannequin and a real person."

Absolutely spot on mate! =D>

Thank you my friend...you made my night.

Jimi

 

[David C]

Well, I will have to admit to having been rather daunted by the prospect of writing about Shane's incredible saw.

I was holding off till inspiration struck. But it did not.

The combination of words like excellent, perfect, superbly hand made, beautifully finished, etc etc is quite an art.

Matthew has done such a good job that I will just say I agree with every word.

best wishes,
David Charlesworth

 

[Mr T]

Well!....I think we have a tool laureate in our midst! I think I was trying to say something similar to Matthew in my comparatively crude review earlier.
The hand shake analogy really says it all.

Unfortunately I still can't afford one.

Chris

 

[Berncarpenter]

Mathew all thats needed now is the woman that does the voice over for the M&S food ads Very difficult to put into words how good this tool is but you nailed it =D> =D> =D>

Cheers Bern

 

[SkeltonSaws]

Dear All,

Thanks again for your overwhelming comments - Matthew I really appreciate your review and once again some really stunning photos of the saw. It is nice that there is an overall appreciation for the look and feel of the handle. I cleared out the workshop of trial handles and just about filled the wheelie bin up before finally making the perfect one!! Actually if you've not already read (on Twitter) I've just this last week finished my design for a new 12" carcass saw. Hopefully this will be available to purchase in the coming months. This is a true carcass saw and embraces elements again from the 18th Century models. The carcass will be a virtual companion to the dovetail saw in appearance, but the overall weight and balance and general feel of the saw have again been optimised for best performance for a saw of this size. (ie brass thickness and hang angle have been changed as well as some other details...) For Christmas, two new books came into my possession, the first being 'The Tool Chest of Benjamin Seaton' and also 'British Saws & Saw Makers from c1660' by Simon Barley. Amazing books and well worth a read if you are really into the history of both saws and hand tools. Maybe one day with a bit of luck I might make it into the latter!

David, was the first person to receive a saw last year. I am so pleased that he continues to enjoy using it - his experience and knowledge of using hand tools has not only been inspiring to me, but I am sure to many of you too over the years. I feel honoured by his kind words and his continued endorsement of the dovetail saw.

Thanks very much all.

Best wishes and a Happy New Year

Shane

 

[Bedrock]

I have had the real pleasure of playing with this saw over the last weekend. I won't try to write a review, given Matthew's excellent posting. I tried it in comparison with an LN 15TPI rip, which I have had for some years, and a rescue Roberts and Lee which is at 20TPI, with a very thin plate. I have never really been happy with the LN as it is a bit "grabby". Having compared it with the Skelton, the set was still clearly excessive, and having taken a stone again to both sides, it is now considerably better. Not as good as the Skelton but much more likely to become a consistent user.
The R&L had just been sharpened, and now gives a clean cut, but does not hold to the line as well as the Skelton. It's probably better for thinner stock.
The woods used were American Black Walnut, Chestnut and Oak.
From the pictures, originally I was not sure about the round cheeks, but in the flesh, it is a very attractive design which compliments the excellent engineering.
If I was in the market for another D/T saw, this would be a very serious runner, notwithstanding the price, which I think is a fair reflection of the thought and skill that has gone into it.
Thank you for the opportunity of trying it.
Can Doug B PM me his address so that I can pass it on.
Mike

 

[SkeltonSaws]

Evening All!

This is the 2nd time that I've typed this and submitted it but not sure where it went!

Great to see that the saw is still doing the rounds. Thanks for your comments Mike. (If your LN is grabbing too much for you, then for £25 including return postage I can adjust the rake angle and reset the teeth to give a maximum of 3 thou set per side) The R & L saw should only require 1-2 passes of a 600-800 grit diamond stone along the side of the teeth that is taking more of the cut to even the set.

Whilst we really love seeing all the reviews on here. (Many of the authors already accomplished writers in this area) We don't want this to be off putting to people who fancy trying the saw out. I would like as many people as possible to have a go- so if you've been thinking about it but have been worrying about writing something just get your name down - no words necessary!


I will be receiving some 20 thou steel plate for the carcass saw in the next couple of weeks, so will be getting on with the first builds.

Recently I have had a really interesting conversation with a man who is in possession of an original 18th Century Squires / Peters saw. It is 1 of only 2 known in existence. The style differs slightly from the early Kenyon saws. I am hoping to come into contact with this at some point in the future with the intention of faithfully reproducing it in all its glory.

Kind regards - Keep Sawing!

Shane

 

[G S Haydon]

It's been a while since "Part 1" but here goes "Part 2"

If thou can bear it my vid can be seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhGmTwO_iwY with a link to a proper "car crash" vid within. And a very similar write up can be found here http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... saw-part-2

Anyway back to the task at hand. The main reason I was bale to wrap my head around this saw was thanks to a set of Gyokucho saws I bought from Matthew with some Christmas vouchers. 'Twas only then I got it. I was having a look at Japanese saws etc on the interweb and of course saw example of Japanese craftspeople making traditional tools, preserving skills and making unique items. I thought that was great and then realised I had the same thing sitting on my bench. I had the same passion and drive there for me to play with. I could of set up a contest between the Dozuki and the Skelton but I fear that would be missing the point. The very real thing about this saw is the person behind the creation. I'm confident I have that right, even more so now I have seen Shane's posting about research for the carcase saw. I could copy and paste a spec sheet based on the info on Shane's website but If you want that I suggest you visit the site and see it for yourself. My advice would be get you hands on one while you can. It's easy to look on and think that a "posh" saw might not be for you but the way I've come to look at it was like having a classic work of art for a Month to enjoy with the only cost to me a bit of return postage! Not bad. We've had a spate of it here recently, shoulder planes, bench planes and now custom saws. It's a credit to everyone who participates in this forum that these things can happen. I don't think I can add any more beyond that given by folks way above my stature, the only thing I would underline is try one!

 

[jimi43]

Recently I have had a really interesting conversation with a man who is in possession of an original 18th Century Squires / Peters saw. It is 1 of only 2 known in existence. The style differs slightly from the early Kenyon saws. I am hoping to come into contact with this at some point in the future with the intention of faithfully reproducing it in all its glory.

Kind regards - Keep Sawing!

Shane

Would this be the little baby Shane? :mrgreen: 8)

I saw it at MAC Timbers and I trust the man to which you refer is none other than Richard Arnold of this parish....

If not...then this is the "other" one! And what a beauty it is too!

Cheers mate

Jimi

 

[tobytools]

And what is so special about that saw, looks like any other carboot find that you would walk away from..

TT

 

[jimi43]

And what is so special about that saw, looks like any other carboot find that you would walk away from..

TT

Let me know if you find one in a bootsale Toby...don't walk away from it....I'll take it off your hands! :mrgreen:

It is a very early and rare saw as mentioned by Shane in his post. Richard brought it along to MAC Timbers last year and it was a thing of beauty indeed.

According to Simon Barley (British Saws and Saw Makers from c 1660)...

PETERS, John - 102 Wardour Street, LONDON c1760-1797

Rees and Rees state that according to his trade card, Peters succeeded to the business of WILLIAM SQUIRE, they give the date as sometime between 1760 and 1789. By the 1790s, three other saw makers were working at the same address, GEORGE STEVENS and EDWARD and ROBERT WILLIAMS (RCG, p43). Two back saws have been recorded with Squire struck on the reverse of the back, and Peters on the front (the usual place), suggesting that one had taken over the stock of the other and added his own mark; this double striking is extremely rare (see Joseph Wilson and Fallshaw) and seems to imply that the backs acquired by Peters had already been marked and could simply be turned around to be given a fresh mark by the new owner/maker.

I hope this helps.

Incidentally.......Simon Barley's book is well worth getting. It is the "Goodman" of British saws.

Jimi



Jimi

 

[SkeltonSaws]

That's the one Jimi! Hopefully, I will reproduce this saw as it was bought originally (Commissioning a new stamp of course) Need to get my hands on it first - have been very kindly offered loan, but far too important and valuable to be put in the post! This makes a Skelton Dovetail look cheap in price comparison....and goes to show that quality workmanship always pays. Over 200 years and still standing the test of time! Obviously though am busy with the new carcass at the moment.

Speak soon

Shane

 

[jimi43]

That's the one Jimi! Hopefully, I will reproduce this saw as it was bought originally (Commissioning a new stamp of course) Need to get my hands on it first - have been very kindly offered loan, but far too important and valuable to be put in the post! This makes a Skelton Dovetail look cheap in price comparison....and goes to show that quality workmanship always pays. Over 200 years and still standing the test of time! Obviously though am busy with the new carcass at the moment.

Speak soon

Shane

I can honestly say Shane that a trip down to see Richard would be the best way to spend the day you could imagine!

I will say in public because it's probably an understatement but Richard is one of the most helpful, generous and amiable gentlemen (in the true sense of the word!) I have had the pleasure to call a friend.

And he also has a mean collection of planes!

I tried the saw...it's magic.

Of course...the finishing of the Skelton carcass saw is also an important piece of work....not that I'm biased or anything! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Whatever you do...I'm sure a reproduction of this unique piece of history would be a great thing to own....I look forward to seeing it.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[Doug B]

Thanks to Chris for organising this pass around.

Thanks to Shane for the opportunity of trying his very fine saw.

Cheers.

Doug.