My Workshop/Garage Build

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

yeah thats sounds to me like the right term i was looking for :lol:
the opening is going to be around 400 - 500mm. that would be ok wouldnt it?

im a total novice when it comes to this. the only thing im going by is that im not going to leave any place for water to settle or get in to any joints.

 

[MikeG.]

Too wide really....because you are going to have to pay for the lead. You'll need Code 5 lead sheet, and that will be pricey.

No, I was really after the length of the flat bit.....not the width. The width should be around 250mm or so....enough to walk on comfortably for maintainence, but not so wide as to require a mortgage for the lead (and remember you will need sides to this gutter that are at least 150 high, so if the bottom is 250, and the 2 sides are 150 each, you already need a sheet of lead a min of 550 wide.).

The length matters, because anything over about 1800 long and you will need steps. For a novice lead-worker, this could be a bit awkward (but not impossible......easier if I was standing on the roof next to you telling you what to do!).

Back to first principles, though........is your workshop going to be attached to the garage as you first proposed? If not, then I would avoid having a roof connecting the two buildings.

Mike

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

yeah i never really thought about the cost of the lead. dohhh :lol:

well the distance will be over 2 metres probably.

would it be an option to make it out of aluminium as i could have something fabricated at work?

why would i need steps over that distance?

 

[MikeG.]

Yes, aluminuim will be great.

No steps will be needed if you can make the whole thing in one piece. You need steps with lead because of a maximum size in any one sheet to allow for expansion and contraction, but I have worked with aluminium box gutters 40 metres long.

Keep it reasonably narrow, though, if you can (300 or 400 if poss).......and be very careful that you don't have other metals in the area (copper, steel etc can set off chemical changes in the aluminium leading to corrosion).

We'll have a look at the roof details when you get a bit closer to that stage.....and a few photos will help.

Mike

 

[Rich]

C'mon Neil, how about some pics?

Regards,

Rich.

 

[maltrout512]

Neil, I have some (quite a few) of an oak framed double garage and workshop for a customer of mine. The area is just over 11m by 5.5hm. The footings where partly dug out and the rest had to be made up rubble, because it was being put on a slope. (you don't have that problem) The footings if I can remember started at the edge 460mm deep for about 400mm then shallowed to a depth of about 100mm. Wire mesh suspended 50mm above the rubble base. Then the concrete. All 16 cu metres. This was done in one section, but the wire mesh was used 10mm dia. This build didn't require planning, ie hight under 4hm and under I think they spec 1/4 may be 1/3 of the area of your garden. As my customers garden is four acres well make your own mind up, but when inquired with the council planning had to be obtained. If you want to see some pics I could zip and e-mail if you require some idea.

Anyway all the best and like some others have said, keep the locals happy and let them know just enough but not all they think they need to know.

 

[MikeG.]

Malcolm,

11m x 5.5m???? And he didn't think it needed Planning Permission??!!! There are houses about that size!!!

Too many people think they know the rules.......Ask an architect or Planning Consultant, because there is no quick guide to whether something needs permission or not. That section in my little reference book occupies 4 dense pages........they can, and do, require buildings to be demolished if you get this wrong.

Incidentally, whilst I try and help on these matters where I can on this and the other forum, the complications are such that I have to be extremely careful with the "do I need P.P?" question. It is so easy to overlook one or other important factor when you haven't done a site visit.

Mike

 

[CWatters]

But the thing that really had me panicking was the idea of a layer of plastic under the feather-edge boards, and outside your insulation!!! No, no, no!! That always goes on the inside of the wall, on the warm side of the insulation.....otherwise you will end up with mould, rot and god knows what going on within your framework. (I love the way some builders will tell you that plastic sweats.....when of course it does nothing of the sort).

On my timber frame outbuilding I'm planning to use breathable roofing membrane behind the weatherboard. On the inside will use left over plastic DPM from the concrete base.

 

[MikeG.]

Colin,

yes thats the idea (although there are specialist timber-frame membranes available in place of using the roofing membrane).

As a rough rule of thumb, the material on the inside of the wall should be 5 times as vapour resistant as the material on the outside.

With an unheated outbuilding, there is a good argument for not having a vapour barrier at all.

Mike

 

[maltrout512]

Mike, I take your point, and as you say a site visit helps to determine more into yes or no about PP. I didn't intend to give any false ideas or facts on this post. Sorry again Mike.

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

cool. il make it out of aluminium then.
well the distance from the 2 walls is 550mm so it will probably work out about 450 - 500mm. wont really know till were up to that level and doing the roof.

heres a couple of pics from the weekends events.

it didnt go aswell as id of hoped. we only managed to get about 3 quarters of the footings filled due to under ordering of concrete. its a bit of a shame but were now going to concrete the floor and fill in that last part of the footing next saturday. then once the blockwork on the last part of the footing is done we will complete the floor. there will be a join about 3 quarters across the floor but thats not really a big issue for me.

we also had an issue with the angle of the blockwork that will be going across the back wall. to have the back wall to line up with the existing garage and be square to it, it would of meant putting the blockwork over my boundry on to the neighbours so i had to make the desision of having the back wall at an off square angle to the existing garage. its not the worst thing that can happen but it just makes things a bit awkward.

i apologise for the poor pictures but you get the idea

 

[MikeG.]

You really are using every inch of the available space, aren't you?!

I can see the roof issue clearly now, and it shouldn't be a problem. Are you planning a mono-pitch or duo-pitch roof?

The only concern I have is access down the sides of the building. Have you got room to get a scaffold up to construct the roof, and when it is all finished, will you be able to maintain the outside and the fence? These odd nooks and crannies (as you are creating here) are sometimes known as Lappland.........derived from "land left after planning"....and before they become rubbish and weed infested hell-holes, you should think about the hard landscaping to use in these areas. If you concrete them over, leave a slope to allow water to run off (onto your property, of course, not the neighbours!).

Mike

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

hahaha. i hate to waste it!! :lol: there is a little space but not really any to build the roof off. i know it will make it difficult but thats just something il have to get over. il have to build as much as i can from the inside and struggle with the rest.

i think i understand what u mean by mono and duo. it will be a mono pithced roof. as im going to be using the area in the roof space for storage and also maybe a usable space for an office if i can. but i plan to build an office on the ground floor but the roof space office would be be a bonus.

glad you can see the issue i have with the gutter. was slightly worried about it. uve eased my mind slightly by reassuring me its not out the question to do it this way.

i plan to fill around the edges with concrete so as to create a smooth area around and also yeah it will get rid of the weeds and stop them growing. cheers for the advice of making it slope away from my garage. i honestly didnt think of that. :lol:

 

[MikeG.]

i think i understand what u mean by mono and duo. it will be a mono pithced roof. as im going to be using the area in the roof space for storage and also maybe a usable space for an office if i can. but i plan to build an office on the ground floor but the roof space office would be be a bonus.

Neil,

how about posting a quick sketch of what you are proposing?

Mike

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

heres a very basic picture of the view i will see from my garden.
im going to cover over the glass sliding doors with frost vinyl (so as still to let light in but block peoples view.)

the drawing is quite near to scale. so there wont be much block work to do on that side!! :lol:

this is the type of roof i was going for. im not sure of the degree of the pitch as yet but il get it all drawn up in autocad to get some proper dimensions.

 

[MikeG.]

Thanks for that Neil......

Thats a duo-pitch roof, by the way. Are you planning on using trusses, doing a site-cut roof, or perhaps using purlins and some sort of sheet roofing? If the latter two I can help with your timber sizes if you want.

This roof will need a continuous plate along the 2 long edges, unless it is a purlin-roof with lightweight sheets. Therefore, you will need to span across the masonry with some steel or big lumps of timber where the garage section at the back is......make sure you leave a pier in the blockwork to pick this up.

One final thing to watch.......your roof and gutters should not overhang your boundary. That can cause all sorts of hassle, including legal problems....and you should think about access to clear out the gutters.

Neil, looking back over the old posts I see that there has been a reasonable amount of discussion about Building Regs, but nothing at all regarding Planning Pemission for this building. Do you have permission, or have you had confirmation from the council that you don't need it? Because this looks to me like it might require it.

Don't take a risk, because they can make you take it back down again.

Mike

 

[Cowboy _Builder]

Are they breeze block that you've used for the footings ,not recommended for use below ground (DPC) as they will be affected by freeze and thaw and could crumble in time ,much better to use Concrete Blocks, i would change them now to save problems later ....Allan (Cowboy Builder)

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

oh i got that one wrong about the roof. lol

to be honest im not sure how the roof is going to be constructed. you will have to ask "plug" on this site. he's sorting that issue out. all im going to do is help him do it.

i should be ok with the gutters and such as im not right up to the boundry on that side. im pretty friendly with the 2 neighbours that might be affected by the garage so hopefully i wont have any issues there.

with the question about building control and the planning office. ive phoned them so many times its unbelievable. making sure im not breaking any rules. ive asked them a few times wether i need planning permission and they have told me i dont. i must admit i thought i would too but i was pleasently surprised.

with reguard to the blocks ive used. they are dense concrete blocks. and dont i know it. there heavy as hell!!! lol :lol:

cheers for all the intrest, its great that people are liking what im doing. i hope. :lol:

well were all set to finish the base at the weekend. all the sand is down and the vapour barrier and sheets of mesh arrive tommorow. nice early morning on saturday for me!!

will keep you guys posted!!

 

[CWatters]

The rules on what yo can build without PP changed on the 1st Oct.

Check list here..

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 62582.html

eg for an outbuilding see..

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 33153.html

Under new regulations that came into effect on 1 October 2008 outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:

No outbuilding forward of the principal elevation fronting a highway.

Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.

Maximum height 2.5 metres within two metres of a boundary.

No verandas, balconies or raised platforms.

No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.

In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from house to be limited to 10 square metres.

On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.

Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.

Note that a highway includes a footpath or similar public land in this context.

 

[neil-the-sticker-guy]

heres a few update pictures for you people to have a look at.

this was done a couple of weekends ago.
took half a day to do and lots of barrowing. there were six of us in total. 2 tamping and 4 on the wheel barrows.

it took 9 and a half metres of concrete to fill. i filled down the edges of the slab area, to keep down the weeds and also to give a flat surface if i ever have to squeeze down there.

the slab had reinforcing mesh put into it and it worked out roughly 150 - 180mm thick.

on saturday we started on the actual build. and you dont know how good it is to actually see it coming out the ground. its been a long time coming.

thats paul in the pics (plug - ukworkshop.co.uk). he's the one doing the blockwork for me. the pictures were taken on the sunday and it is up to 4 courses high all round now.

im hoping we will get a better start next week and will get maybe 5 courses up. i might have a little go myself putting a few down.

if all goes well were hoping to have it water tight within a month (just weekends)