I’m making a workbench with Nick at Wharfedale…so hopefully that will be the solid foundation to build some rudimentary skills with hand tools on…..good advice. Thx.
My first thread….table saw, sander and dust extractor….be gentle….
- Thread starter Jfw2708
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Bang on really
Woodworking is like cooking in that you cannot make a cake without breaking eggs and you cannot cut and shape wood without dust, all you can do is reduce the amount and don't let it build up. With power tools you could spend a fortune on Festool as there claim to fame is keeping the dust down but equally you can use a local bin extractor with tools and reduce the dust but might need to wear a mask with fine dust like MDF. It is all to easy to go overboard with a large fancy extraction system like you find in commercial shops but there are cheaper ways to achieve a suitable objective and then buy better machinery with the savings.
Molynoox
Established Member
After giving this some thought I decided to write myself a little table. It might be useful to post it here:
If dust extraction is key for your gym kit compatibility then a track saw may be top of the list; its the only tool I have that gives exceptional dust extraction. It has a cowl over the entire blade and when used with a shop vac, like the festool, virtually all the dust is captured. I put a piece of tape over the maintenance hatch too (for blade changes) which completely seals it off.
The convenience column is basically about the fence - but it's a big factor IMO, especially if you want to do any repeat cuts. I love track saws but when doing repeat cuts (lets say 10 cuts at 30mm thick) a track saw is accurate but a little faffy in reality. With a table saw or band saw, you set the fence at 30mm and then simply run your stock through it 10 times, you don't even need to turn the saw off between cuts. Because of this I often find myself sacrificing accuracy and using the bandsaw over the track saw, just because its so much faster / more convenient. If you have your track on a hinge, it would be a closer call, but I don't. If you have a table saw, which I don't, then you sort of get the best of both worlds.
Martin
If dust extraction is key for your gym kit compatibility then a track saw may be top of the list; its the only tool I have that gives exceptional dust extraction. It has a cowl over the entire blade and when used with a shop vac, like the festool, virtually all the dust is captured. I put a piece of tape over the maintenance hatch too (for blade changes) which completely seals it off.
The convenience column is basically about the fence - but it's a big factor IMO, especially if you want to do any repeat cuts. I love track saws but when doing repeat cuts (lets say 10 cuts at 30mm thick) a track saw is accurate but a little faffy in reality. With a table saw or band saw, you set the fence at 30mm and then simply run your stock through it 10 times, you don't even need to turn the saw off between cuts. Because of this I often find myself sacrificing accuracy and using the bandsaw over the track saw, just because its so much faster / more convenient. If you have your track on a hinge, it would be a closer call, but I don't. If you have a table saw, which I don't, then you sort of get the best of both worlds.
Martin
bp122
Expert at Jibber-Jabber
I used to have the same issues, but I found a few solutions to this from various sources.
1. A parallel guide (home made to keep cost down) can really speed up the setup on track saws. Steve Maskery has a video on how to make this.
2. A bit more investment but MFT style top and a few dogs are so good for accuracy, angled cuts and repeatability. Yes, it's difficult to achieve this without the parf guide or something but one can either buy an MFT top off eBay for little money or borrow the parf guide from a member for beer money etc and get some cheap dogs too begin with and will give you panel saw accuracy
I can see why this is appealling, I need to try this.
Also, agree about the comments on dust. At best you can reduce it, not eliminate it. Festool extractor, track saw combo might do well, bandsaw (with a good extraction) a medium second but all other large tools are mega spewers.
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I think you have marked the tracksaw down pretty badly. Because you can take the saw to the work it’s far more convenient. Unless you have a large panel saw cutting boards on a table saw is a pain and impossible on a bandsaw. Take a look at the benchdogs site to see the attachments available for tracksaws that add repeatability and rapid alignment.
For me at least a tracksaw rates higher than both a table saw and a bandsaw. This might be because I use it for sheet goods which is what they are designed for.
Molynoox
Established Member
I agree.
I think I should have labelled the convenience column differently. Maybe call it 'repeat cuts' or just 'fence' because that's what I was meaning really.
Looking at your table I would make some changes, you cannot class all bandsaws or mitre saws as being the same because some will out perform others but assuming generic terms then the bandsaw is as good as the table saw doing what it does so they are all accurate. The tracksaw is also very convenient as it can break down full sheets unlike the table saw so again they are all convenient in there own ways. The tracksaw can also cut angles and crosscut especially when using something like this from Woodpeckers Adjustable Track Square - Wood Workers Workshop
or this TSO Products MTR-18 Precision Triangle
It’s been refreshing to get on a site and get some good and thought through answers to what was a very newbie question which this site must get a lot. i was expecting ’learn how to use the search function, dummy’ type answers! So many thanks to all and bodes well tbh.
Having read all the advice thought im half joking when i say that i think me best bet is initially to find someone local to me in Harrogate who has some of the kit listed then ask if they mind if i use it to get a feel for stuff as i need to cut down wood. My initial projects will be small skills learning so makes sense not to just jump straight in. Any volunteers much appreciated!
happy New Year all!
Having read all the advice thought im half joking when i say that i think me best bet is initially to find someone local to me in Harrogate who has some of the kit listed then ask if they mind if i use it to get a feel for stuff as i need to cut down wood. My initial projects will be small skills learning so makes sense not to just jump straight in. Any volunteers much appreciated!
happy New Year all!
Jester129
Established Member
Have you seen the price for that 'precision triangle??? £463!!! That is taking the urine, surely!
Festools is about )£150 , there’s a couple on Banggood even cheaper .the woodpeckers parallel guide system is approx £550 -£600 but the Banggood is around £80/£90 . I’ve been suprised a few times on what you can get from Banggood - all made from aluminium and the quality is better than you might think ..
bp122
Expert at Jibber-Jabber
That cost more than my track saw and just 10% shy of what I paid for the Axi table saw!
Bandsaw - handy to have. But how handy when its needed to split 8x4 boards ?, not handy at all.
So yes, you need a tablesaaw, as well as a bandsaw, as well as a planer/thicknesser, as well as a cross cutting machine like a powered mitre saw.
Drill stand or pillar drill is nice too, as well as a morticer and very handy to have is an oscillating bobbin sander.
Mitre trimmer is very nice to own.
Router table - Thumbs up.
Huge pile of other bits most of which will see use once a decade, but nice to have all the same.
But No1 start off with a tablesaw.
But you do play Russian roulette, the surprise is free.
This one is £390 from WWW and is as shown and made from alloy.
Or this one from Amazon for £23 and they look identical because it is the same base image but the one on the left is plastic with this review
The choice is yours, go cheap and get cheap or buy once with confidence and get quality.
On some items maybe , the drill guide you show from woodpeckers is indeed quality but the other cheapo one was the subject of a recent thread . I don’t just buy tools without first reading reviews and I also use the reviews on utube ( China tools ) . That particular drill guide is around £70 depending on the make / upgrade version
FONSON TOOLS Upgraded All Aluminum Alloy Adjustable Woodworking Drill Locator Guide With 8pcs Extension Rods Flip Stops and Wrench For Positioning Too
£68.53
UK.Banggood
By Google
XIUYI XIUYI Precision Woodworking Multi-Angle Drill Guide with Handles and Positioning Blocks Hole Punch Locator Adjustable Drilling Height Aluminum A
£70.12
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...yO3OgbuDAxW9g_0HHd9aAjkQwg8oAHoECAcQPw&adurl=
There is also this available from temu but it’s pretty obvious this will be cheap and rubbish plastic as usual buyer beware !!
1pc Portable Woodworking Drill Locator, Drill Guide, Drill Press Stand, Plastic Precision Drilling Guide, Adjustable DIY Furniture Positioning Hand
£15.48
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...yO3OgbuDAxW9g_0HHd9aAjkQwg8oAHoECAcQOQ&adurl=
I’ve made several purchases from woodpeckers USA and paid the shipping - and sometimes got stung for import taxes etc but always top quality . I’ve also made several purchases from Banggood and I’ve been pleasantly suprised -yes they are often copies but well made copies . They may not have etched markings , the anodising not as thick but they are certainly not cheap and nasty plastic . I have several squares /tri squares etc and they are just as accurate as the woodpecker or bridge city or Moore and wright .I can send any item back if I’m not happy with it but as yet I have not had to .
FONSON TOOLS Upgraded All Aluminum Alloy Adjustable Woodworking Drill Locator Guide With 8pcs Extension Rods Flip Stops and Wrench For Positioning Too
£68.53
UK.Banggood
By Google
XIUYI XIUYI Precision Woodworking Multi-Angle Drill Guide with Handles and Positioning Blocks Hole Punch Locator Adjustable Drilling Height Aluminum A
£70.12
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...yO3OgbuDAxW9g_0HHd9aAjkQwg8oAHoECAcQPw&adurl=
There is also this available from temu but it’s pretty obvious this will be cheap and rubbish plastic as usual buyer beware !!
1pc Portable Woodworking Drill Locator, Drill Guide, Drill Press Stand, Plastic Precision Drilling Guide, Adjustable DIY Furniture Positioning Hand
£15.48
https://www.googleadservices.com/pa...yO3OgbuDAxW9g_0HHd9aAjkQwg8oAHoECAcQOQ&adurl=
I’ve made several purchases from woodpeckers USA and paid the shipping - and sometimes got stung for import taxes etc but always top quality . I’ve also made several purchases from Banggood and I’ve been pleasantly suprised -yes they are often copies but well made copies . They may not have etched markings , the anodising not as thick but they are certainly not cheap and nasty plastic . I have several squares /tri squares etc and they are just as accurate as the woodpecker or bridge city or Moore and wright .I can send any item back if I’m not happy with it but as yet I have not had to .
Thats what a track saw is for. Way better than a small table saw.
Mikebart
Established Member
Don’t forget that whatever is best usually depends on how big or small your workshop is.
Molynoox
Established Member
You have picked out the two extremes of the spectrum there, but there is a middle ground that represents the sweet spot for most people. Bang good occupy this space on the market, and a few others. There are plenty of YouTube channels out there helping us consumers find the right blend of price and quality, like Dennis at hooked on wood for example.
Having said that, I like benchdogs products and I'm happy to pay for them for some items, but for many tools I would be looking at the bang good part of the market as I can get 95% of the quality at 25% of the price for a lot of things. And that makes a lot of sense when you have a limited budget and can't afford to buy everything you want.
You are right that there is plenty of rubbish out there, but no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater; simply do your research and avoid ending up with junk.
Martin
If you have space and money for a sliding panel saw then for sure it’s an excellent option. A site saw or a small table saw is far from ideal for working sheet goods.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
Henry good for the ROS and as a general purpose vacuum cleaner (i.e. low volume high pressure - LVHP) - connected to the tool with a hose and ideally with an auto on/off switch.
TS and planer best with HVLP extractor such as this Axminster Workshop AW82E Dust Extractor - 230V but the bigger the better.
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