Multifuel Stove not heating house. And some other stuff.

[BearTricks]

I'm in a rented house at the moment and I've probably moaned about it before on here.

The house itself is lovely. Not sure when it was built, but it's a stone end terrace, nice sized garden, lots of character etc etc. The problem is that it's had some work done badly. There's an 'orangery' type thing on the back. Basically one of the walls and part of the pitched roof has been replaced with glass. The kitchen is in this area, and the orangery opens in to the living room through a approx. 10ft x 5ft opening. The ceiling glass leaks when it rains often, the landlady says that this is because water gets trapped under the lead. There are a couple of regular areas where it leaks, and occasionally it will spring a leak somewhere new and get all over some of our furniture. I can put up with that if I have to.

The charnwood multi-fuel stove is in the living room. It has a vent at the foot of each door, and a pull out knob on the bottom right hand side. From what I understand charnwood are very good stoves however I cannot get it to heat the room at all. You get the benefit if you sit right in front of the fireplace but even a couple of feet away you can't feel it. To be honest the central heating in this room isn't much better. At best we can get it up to comfortable temperatures but that is still while wearing wear jumpers all the time. At my parents houses it gets uncomfortably hot after about an hour or so of burning.

The first thing I'm wondering is what's wrong with the fire? I've tried cleaning the plate on the ceiling of the fire, cleaning the ash out, using every type of fuel available, running the fire for hours etc. The wood I'm using is dry below 15%-ish moisture content.

My second question is to do with the landlord. If we put the heating on, we're not getting the benefit of what we're paying for. The heating is better in the rest of the house, but I'm sure that the orangery is sucking all the heat out of the living room and farting it out in to the garden (but that doesn't explain the fire not getting hot). At the moment I'm wrapped up so I'm not cold but my breath is misty which I don't think is acceptable. If I wanted to be actually warm I'd probably have to put the heating on full blast and keep a fire going for hours, meaning that I'd be paying far more than someone in a better property, and putting in a lot more effort for an equal or lesser result.

Now my landlady is the one providing the house, and my landlady is the one who had some cowboy do all the 'improvements' before she moved out. As I see it I'm wasting money that I shouldn't have to waste because of bad design and bad workmanship. Does my landlady have an obligation to provide me with a place that isn't unnecessarily sapping my money and that is somewhat comfortable? At the moment we're constantly stressed because of how how uncomfortable we are, and that's not to mention the problems with the rest of the house and the awful neighbours with their rat infestation. We're looking to get out and on to the property market as soon as possible, but it's difficult because I took voluntary redundancy in the run up to Christmas, and am finding it a bit tricky to find work.

Any ideas?

 

[RobinBHM]

Have you checked the radiators are balanced? I would check every radiator to see if it gets fully hot from top to bottom.

Maybe the rads in the kitchen / orangery are undersized.

If its an old character cottage it may be very poorly insulated. Being end of terrace it probably has a large gable end, solid walls, no insulation on floor or enough in loft.

I doubt the landlord is responsible for energy efficiency, although probably responsible for having a house that can reach a comfortable temperature. Probably your only option is to vote with your feet.

 

[blackrodd]

Sorry to hear you're problems, I'm not able to be helpful with legislation on the letting.
You don't say which Charnwood model you have, Below is a link to Country 16b, Page 8 is dedicated to troubleshooting for that model, not sure you will have this to hand for you're particular model, or been able to check out the Fire's workings.
Thought it may be of some use.
Regards Rodders

 

[porker]

There are a lot of variables with log burners but the most common issues are that the wood is not dry enough (below 20%) and then general circulation of the heated air. There are loads of other issues like size of burner versus size of space, insulation properties in the house etc. First thing I would check is whether the stove is actually getting up to the correct temperature. Do you have a flue thermometer? I would check this first before anything else. I have a Clearview 500 which is 8kW in an open plan large house. If run for a few hours, the room gets to a nice temperature even though the heat disappears everywhere quite quickly if left to die down. When I first had it installed I used wood that wasn't as dry as I thought and although the fire looked good, the stove wasn't getting up to heat. I also have it in a fireplace alcove and the heat was not circulating but going to the ceiling. I now use an Ecofan and that improved this quite a bit.

 

[AJB Temple]

The landlord has no obligation to provide a house with any particular standard of insulation or heating capability unless this was specified in your contract. If the property is managed by an agent, definitely address the leaks and coldness with them, as they are motivated to spend the landlord's money as they charge a fee on top for remedial work. If it is landlord managed I would still, politely, ask the landlord to address these issues as you have little to lose. Landlord managed is rarely good for rentals.

The upside is that it is January sale time and extra woolly jumpers are cheap...

Good luck with the job hunting. Hopefully things will pick up soon.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Make sure the chimney has been swept - I believe this IS the responsibility of the landlord, ask to see a certificate. You must by law now have a CO detector (landlord, again). Our stove is quite small, and we have trouble cooling the room down. As above with a Clearview - we had one in a large four bedroomed house and only used central heating three of four weeks of the year.

 

[Fatboy]

Your landlord only has an obligation under S11 of the landlord & Tenant Act 1985 to keep the space heating in good working order; if it works - albeit not very well - then she has complied with the act. However, if the property or parts of the property are excessively cold when the heating is working then you can report it to the local council under the HSSRS (Health & Safety Standard Rating System) as a hazard to your health. Excessive cold is a reportable hazard.

Since 1st October last year all rental properties must be fitted with a smoke alarm on each floor and a CO detector in any room fitted with a solid fuel burning appliance ie woodburner, open fireplace etc as well as having a gas safety certificate for the gas installation (if present). Private landlords make all sorts of errors and omissions with safety issues, deposit protection, right to quiet enjoyment etc which can be used to beat them about the earholes when you need them to do something to rectify a problem. Hopefully your landlord will be a decent type who will try to help.

Whether the property is managed by the landlord or an agent approach them first, in writing, explaining the problem and asking them to improve the insulation of the affected area. Give them a reasonable timescale to attend to it. If they ignore it, or refuse, then approach the council. If its a decent council they will come out and complete an HSSRS report on the property - add anything else you think isn't right. It would be helpful to get an idea of how cold it is in the litchen when the heating is on full so grab a little room thermometer and start keeping a log or internal and external temps. She isn't under any obligation to improve the exisiting installation but it must work to a reasonable standard.

Its a common misconception that agents will automatically carry out repairs using the landlords money or that they all charge a bit on top for it. They still need to get the landlords permission to spend any of her money and she'll likely want quotes even if she does agree to it.

 

[BearTricks]

The landlady does indeed manage the property although she lives approximately 200 miles away and seems to move around rented properties herself a couple of times a year for work, which we only found out upon the signing of the contract and which probably goes some way to explaining her 'make do' attitude towards rentals. That said, she apparently lived in this house for thirteen years, and I know she had a family here because she has a son the same age as me. I can't see anyone living comfortably here for that long considering that we've barely managed a year. That makes me think that most of the work was done shortly before she moved out in an attempt to make the place look good to tenants, and was rushed.

I'll get the chimney swept at some point before next weekend and see if that does anything to improve matters. It is overdue, but I have been waiting for better weather considering that several areas around us were flooded recently and the chimney sweep might not have been able to get here. I also couldn't figure out why that might help, but I admit I don't know much about it anyway.

On another note, regarding the council: I got tired of antisocial behaviour around here and there are several people with dogs who refuse to clean up their dogs mess, particularly on a public footpath we use several times a day. There are new piles of dog dung every day, and I know because I've been keeping track. I got in touch with the council and they apparently sent someone up to have a look but couldn't find anything on the path (but admitted that they saw one instance of dog mess on 'the grass' which is a playing field so I imagine the rules apply but they didn't acknowledge this). On that day there were three new piles of dung on the path and two huge ones outside my front window which is on a main road, about 50 meters up from the High st, in full view of every car that passes by. Not to mention some drunk teenagers had vomited on my bins and on the wall of the house. This is in a nice, relatively affluent area too.

So no, the council aren't exactly on top of things.

 

[Paul200]

Sounds to me like your first instinct is correct. The 'orangery' is leaking heat. Is it double glazed?

I hate to say this, and I'm open to being proved wrong, but when I had a tool shop and had been persuaded to sell Charnwood workshop tools I soon learned that they were, shall we say, not quite up to standard. Whether this lack of quality stretches to their stoves I couldn't say - but they bear a close resemblance to other, cheap Chinese imports I've seen. Not a lot you can do about that, but, is your chimney sweep NACS registered? If so, like ours, he could be an invaluable source of information. He will be able to tell you exactly how to use the stove and whether or not it will ever be able to do the job it was intended to do.

If you're using timber at 15% then you're doing nothing wrong but maybe try getting the logs dryer - every bit of moisture in a log is a waste of heat. Our stored logs are generally down to about 7 or 8% before we use them in our Clearview. (Seems to be a winner on this forum!).

I sincerely hope you can sort this problem amicably with your landlady - it's no fun when you're not in control of a situation. I would have thought that there was some sort of standard that letting properties had to meet in terms of heating and insulation.

 

[BearTricks]

Sounds to me like your first instinct is correct. The 'orangery' is leaking heat. Is it double glazed?

I hate to say this, and I'm open to being proved wrong, but when I had a tool shop and had been persuaded to sell Charnwood workshop tools I soon learned that they were, shall we say, not quite up to standard. Whether this lack of quality stretches to their stoves I couldn't say - but they bear a close resemblance to other, cheap Chinese imports I've seen. Not a lot you can do about that, but, is your chimney sweep NACS registered? If so, like ours, he could be an invaluable source of information. He will be able to tell you exactly how to use the stove and whether or not it will ever be able to do the job it was intended to do.

If you're using timber at 15% then you're doing nothing wrong but maybe try getting the logs dryer - every bit of moisture in a log is a waste of heat. Our stored logs are generally down to about 7 or 8% before we use them in our Clearview. (Seems to be a winner on this forum!).

I sincerely hope you can sort this problem amicably with your landlady - it's no fun when you're not in control of a situation. I would have thought that there was some sort of standard that letting properties had to meet in terms of heating and insulation.

The orangery (I still don't know the definition of one of those is) windows are double glazed, the glass in the doors is not and I'm not overly sure about the ceiling. There isn't any heating in there to be honest.

We've toyed with getting some kind of curtain to cover the opening, which would look strange, but might keep some of the heat in.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've had a little Charnwood C4 for 3 years. Perfectly good stoves. Anyway, if they were such inferior stoves, given the price, they wouldn't survive in the market place. It's not as though there isn't plenty of competition, some of it a lot cheaper than Charnwood.
I'd try the curtain, if only to see the effect. I expect it will make a huge difference. I have a large double glazed window in the same room as the Charnwood. If I draw the curtains it makes a noticeable difference. If I place a curtain over the outer door (it's draught proofed) that also makes a difference. In fact it can start to get uncomfortably hot in the room, even on a minus C day.

 

[RobinBHM]

The glass in the doors wont help, single glazing has a u value of almost 5.0 compared to current buildings regs of around 1.6.

If the orangery / glazed extension was done recently and is open to the house it should have been done under building regs and assuming it would count as an extensio with escess glazing would require a SAPS test.

 

[Harbo]

From what I've read I would move as soon as my contract had ended.
Does the Rent Tribunal still exist?

Rod

 

[mind_the_goat]

Is the stove providing the central heating too? That would explain why it doesn't get very hot as all the heat would going into the water.
If the stove is in the fireplace is the chimney correctly sealed off with a plate and insulation above, with a proper flue fitted? An open chimney would let all the heat out.

 

[Shrubby]

Does the woodburner have a gate or damper on the flue which you close once the fire is established - this stops all the heat shooting up the chimney. Try and find a manual for the stove on the net
With the C/H have you tried bleeding trapped air out of the rads with a key ?
Matt

 

[heimlaga]

Having your heated home open towards an orangery is totally ridiculous. There is no way an orangery is going to keep any heat in whether single or double or triple glazed.
I would suggest that you get some of the cheapest 2x4 you can find and some hardboard and put up a temporary stud wall in the opening at insulate it and cover both sides with hardwood. If you cut the studs a few millimetres overlenght and drive them in between sill and plate you will not need to fasten neither sill nor plate to the walls. That way you can remove your wall without a trace when you move.

Did you know all who build homes with open floor plans including orangeries go to hell. Voluntarily. For the heat........ :twisted:

Living up here in woodstove land I have never heard of charnwood. Howewer 20-25% moisture content should be dry enough in any kind of firewood. Dried outdoors under roof that is.

If the stove doesn't produce any heat I would suspect the chimney first.
-A woodstove without a gate that can be closed after the last embers have gone out (always double check the embers... or preferably throw them out the door) is totaly useless. All the heat goes up the chimney. Preferably the gate should be as high up the chimney as possible (under the ceiling) to retain the heat in the chimney.
-A too big flue will remove all the heat while the fire is burning and a clogged or too small chimney dampens the fire to an efficient smoulder (with high risk of carbon monoxide poisoning). It has to be right.

In rare occasions fires may burn cold because of too much or too little air entering the stove. Not very common but it has happened.

 

[sawdust1]

The only way to test the moisture of a log is to split it and measure the centre. Yours maybe 15% on the outside but could be 50% in the middle.
Any woodburner works best when running hard, but if the logs are still wet then all the heat is gone in drying off all the moisture.
You need to get yourself a flue thermometer about £15 on ebay, it magnetically clips onto the flue about 9 inches from the woodburner body, this will give you a guide as to the correct running temperature of your woodburner, a must for all woodburners.
Check the chimney is lined and the chimney pot is above the ridge.
Try running it with vets open to see if it gets up to temperature.
Check ash trays are clean and ash not blocking base.
Is their an air vent in the wall that maybe shut, not enough air in the room, a good fire needs air to draw.
Blockage in the chimney, sweep will let you know.
Ask the previous owner if they used the woodburner and if they had problems.
Can't think of anything else.

 

[BearTricks]

Well I spent a day swapping the dining and living rooms round. The dining room seems to hold heat better but it isn't as nice and was home to a big pile of timber that had nowhere else to live. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it though.