Home Tuition

[Mrs C]

I have a friend who is a semi retired cabinet maker who needs to downsize his business but still needs something to generate a small income and keep his brain occupied.

I am doing some research into the market for home tuition for amateur woodworkers who want help, but perhaps dont have the time to commit to a course, or perhaps to provide an extra pair of expert hands for difficult or large projects.

Does anyone think that there is a demand for this and if so what hourly rate would you expect to pay? I am initially looking for general resposes to understand if it is worth persuing.

Many thanks

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Generally people won't pay for things they can get for free sadly. YouTube and Internet has made free advise easily available

 

[transatlantic]

Generally people won't pay for things they can get for free sadly. YouTube and Internet has made free advise easily available

I don't think I would agree. There is a big difference in being self taught from videos/books to having someone show you something, have them critique your technique, watch them in person and being able to ask questions there and then.

Having said that, I'm not sure if home tuition for this kind of hobby would work? specifically, the average beginner is not going to have the tools, materials and equipment. Or did you mean the studdent would come to the teachers house?

 

[rafezetter]

I have to agree with transatlantic, having a personal tutor is bound to get you better and faster results; however he would have to balance a price between making it worthwhile for him, but at the same time, cheap enough that he actually gets a student or two.

I guess it depends on what his aim is - to teach an older hobbyist with a bit of cash to spare, or a younger person interested in the craft.

If it was the former he'd have to make sure it didn't become "I'm doing it for the money" because that would surely sour the relationship.

 

[thegsey]

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[dynax]

it's not just the insurance that's the killer, he will also need a teaching certificate a CG7306 at the very least, then there is ths H&S aspect, risk assesments and a fire assesment by the fire brigade which also costs, just the public liability cover alone would make this a non starter as the outlay would be more than the income,

 

[custard]

I'm sceptical for another reason. A few times people have dropped by my workshop and I've helped them out with a problem or two. But whenever I've been to someone else's workshop to help with a cabinet making problem I invariably end up acting as an equipment engineer, sorting out their planer thicknesser, bandsaw, or router table. Furthermore it's often the case that their equipment is badly maintained, sometimes way past the limits of safety and efficiency.

It's a nice idea, but my instinct is it would have to be handtools only.

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

it's not just the insurance that's the killer, he will also need a teaching certificate a CG7306 at the very least, then there is ths H&S aspect, risk assesments and a fire assesment by the fire brigade which also costs, just the public liability cover alone would make this a non starter as the outlay would be more than the income,

please not again...Things like these just kill my will to live
What happened to the good old days when everyone didn't sued everyone for everything and there were no win-no-fee money grabbers on every corner of every city.
All this is getting a bit stupid, and discourages people to start anything.

 

[shed9]

Your friend could approach the local colleges and work something out with them. Their insurance will cover the risk and he gets to teach more people at the same time.

I agree with Custard though, hand tools only is my gut.

 

[thegsey]

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[lurker]

it's not just the insurance that's the killer, he will also need a teaching certificate a CG7306 at the very least, then there is ths H&S aspect, risk assesments and a fire assesment by the fire brigade which also costs, just the public liability cover alone would make this a non starter as the outlay would be more than the income,

Except you are well wide of the mark.
No need for teaching quals
H&S is fairly simple so long as you have covered a few things regarding power tools which to be honest any decent trademan's should be doing anyway
FRA should not be a big deal and does not involve the FB: housekeeping, means of escape, prevent spread to other properties.
He would need public liability insurance, but this just requires finding an insurer who knows what they are talking about

 

[lurker]

dynax, I feel your pain. This BS has killed a few of my dreams. I wish I could put a big "enter at your own risk" sign up and be done with but looking into it there are so many potential problems that anyone who isn't 100% committed or has zero care in the world is put off. I'm a moderately cautious person so will push the boundaries a bit but when there's too much potentially at risk I get cold feet.

I used to let an industrial unit and sublet to multiple hobby users. Under legal advice I was told not to make any kind of contract so then I couldn't be liable for things I had left off. Not that it would protect me but the contract could have made matters worse. There I hung a set of rules on the wall and a big sign saying essentially look after yourself. I still worried about things going wrong but nothing did and 6 years on the unit is still going with not a single problem. I since moved out and passed the tenancy on.

I am tempted to do things like this again but am even more cautious now as have my own ltd company and know how much I am paying for public liability insurance just to sit behind various desks!

Just for the social aspect I would love to set up a club at my home workshop for like minded enthusiasts but the worry kills it. If anyone can give me a definitive answer on how to genuinely and in a water tight war mitigate the risk or remove liability at minimal cost I would jump at the chance.

If OP's mate manages to get this going and it is near enough you can sign me up.

Whoever provided you with legal advice was wrong as like it or not, you had liabilites.
I could bore you by quoting them :roll:
Lucky you had no incidents that came back to bite you

H&S is nothing to be concerned about, but you need someone who is properly qualified and there lies the problem as H&S consultants are not regulated.

 

[dynax]

another option and probably easier to do is find a local mens shed and volunteer, he won't get paid but will be around to assist and teach in a fashion,

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

The problem with offering one on one tuition is that there is only one person paying the wages/costs. In a class of, say 15, the costs are split 15 ways. I might be wrong (not an uncommon event) but I think he would struggle to find customers willing to pay enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[thegsey]

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[Bod]

Would something like the late Ron Fox's set up work?
Concentrate on one aspect, become something of a Guru on that aspect, attract commercial sponsorship.
Small classes in a set up environment.

Bring a small selection of your hand tools, we'll get them working at their best, make a small project. Done in a day. Cost £35?
Basic saw/chisel/plane sharpening, how to use marking gauges/squares etc.
Basic stuff.
More advanced, wood finishing/french polishing, use of plough/rebate planes.

What call would there be in his area? How far would folk travel?


Bod

 

[Steve Maskery]

Done in a day. Cost £35?

Bod, are you, or have you ever been, self-employed?

How many students would you take at £35 a day? 10? Fine. If you can get 10 a day, every day, you will will have a decent business.

But if you are talking 1 to 1, or even 1 to 3 or 4, you will probably spend a day in prep for every day you teach. So do the sums.

If you have a job or a pension and this is just some fun in your spare time, then great, there is nothing wrong with that, but if it is supposed to financially viable, then this is not even in the right ball-park.

There are approximately 1000 billable hours in a year. You may well work twice that, but you can't bill someone for all of them. Need to go to the bank? You pay for that time. Need to spend a few hours with your accountant? You pay for that. Need to spend time marketing and promoting your business? You pay for that. Need to spend time visiting potential customers and quoting for a job? You pay for that. Have a few days off sick or on holiday? You pay for that.

Nobody else does. You don't get paid for that time.

£35 is the stuff that falls out of your pocket. Good luck with paying the bills, because bankruptcy is looming. And if I have scared you, then this post has been successful.

Steve Maskery, MBA, and lousy at Business.

 

[Richard S]

"There are approximately 1000 billable hours in a year. You may well work twice that, but you can't bill someone for all of them. Need to go to the bank? You pay for that time. Need to spend a few hours with your accountant? You pay for that. Need to spend time marketing and promoting your business? You pay for that. Need to spend time visiting potential customers and quoting for a job? You pay for that. Have a few days off sick or on holiday? You pay for that. "

I think there are a few more than a thousand billable hours if you work full time, I generally bill between 10 and 12 per day so more like 2500 - 3000. However I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of the rest of your post.

 

[Steve Maskery]

1000 is the academic benchmark and fits with my own experience.
But if you are billing 10-12 hours per day, every day, then RESPECT. Personally I don't see how. But more power to your elbow.

S

 

[AJB Temple]

Getting back to the question: I would definitely employ a cabinet maker on a flexible part time basis to help me with my personal projects. I would not consider paying an hourly rate but I would pay a day rate. I would expect the person to have clear skills and be reasonably available enough to be useful. I would not pay for travelling time. I would not have any concerns about teaching qualifications, and they would need to sign an indemnity so that I am not responsible if they injure themselves.