Fox Alien 4040XE CNC router

[Peter45@]

Hello All. Does anyone have any experience with this CNC router? Thanks, Peter

 

[sploo]

No direct experience with that model, but a 300W spindle and belt driven doesn't hugely inspire confidence. For basic engraving, maybe. Not sure it would be that great for much CNC cutting (though I could be being overly negative).

 

[julianf]

As above, feed rate etc is neither here nor there if you can't spin the tool fast enough and with enough torque to actually remove material.

If there's one on the used market for a couple of hundred quid, sure, but at the new price, I'd not consider it.

Cheap cncs are cheap to build now. Quality linear kit is still big money but you can get cheap stuff, which will have a bit of play etc, for not a lot of money now.

 

[Peter45@]

Thanks to both for comments. Are there kits out there to build CNC non belt driven? Or can you recommend a machine a bit meatier? It is for my son, who builds guitars, and so will not be doing very heavy duty stuff…..cutting out pockets for the necks, and cutting the f-holes, recesses for pickups etc.

 

[sploo]

I hear reasonable things about the Ooznest WorkBee machines, but to be honest my 1000x600mm (approx) CNC machine runs ballscrews and linear rails, has a 2.2kW spindle, weighs over 100kg.... and is considered a toy by any "proper" CNC standards. The equivalent (cutting area) WorkBee looks to be about 32kg, so I'd worry it'd flop around like a wet noodle for any sort of heavy cuts. Maybe the technology has moved on in the ~20 years since I bought my machine, but it's hard to ignore the differences in mass.

 

[Kayen]

As the name suggests the Fox Alien 4040XE only has a 400 x 400mm workspace - isn't that a bit too small for guitar-making?

As sloo suggests, have a look at Ooznest which has a choice of larger sizes for not much more.

I would have thought that as long as you're patient and take light passes the Workbee would be fine - I'm looking at getting one myself

They were offering 15% discount a while back, so I'm waiting for a similar offer to pop up

 

[akirk]

would he also consider a laser?
Mine will cut 3/4" softwoods and c. 10mm hardwoods
you have the disadvantage of a charred edge (which can be sanded back), but you have far more accuracy than with a CNC
you are also limited to 2D whereas a CNC can typically do 2.5D

 

[Peter45@]

would he also consider a laser?
Mine will cut 3/4" softwoods and c. 10mm hardwoods
you have the disadvantage of a charred edge (which can be sanded back), but you have far more accuracy than with a CNC
you are also limited to 2D whereas a CNC can typically do 2.5D

Thanks for input. What laser do you have? I don’t understand 2D vs 2.5D…

 

[julianf]

Thanks for input. What laser do you have? I don’t understand 2D vs 2.5D…

Laser is straight through. Mechanical mill can do profiling but only from above.

Don't be sold on the comment that a laser is more accurate. Certainly mechanical cutters ware and hence recalibration is needed, but go on any laser forum and you'll find stacks of people with their lasers going out of alignment, dirty mirrors, etc. etc.

I'm not suggesting the comment is wrong. But just that it's not exactly right either! : )

 

[akirk]

As julianf mentions...

Laser comes from above and basically can do two things - cut a line / shape by burning through, and etch / engrave on the surface - but if you want anything more 3D (e.g. lettering that appears to be chiselled out of the wood / wood carving / etc.) then it can't do it... It operates in the X and Y axis only

CN can do a bit more in that it can cut in 3 axis mode - x / y / z - however, that is not true 3D as it can't undercut - so if you wanted to cut a bridge it would have issues in coming underneath to cut out that space - to do proper 3D you probably need a 4axis or ideally 5 axis CNC machine (good overview here: 3 Axis, 4 Axis & 5 Axis CNC: What’s the Difference & Which is Best? - CNCSourced) Because they can't do true 3D - but effectively can do what appears to be 3D when looking from one direction, they are known as 2.5D

any machine can be inaccurate if not maintained but in good condition, a laser will give higher accuracy - if nothing else, the cutting point on a laser will be far smaller, giving more precision...

I have the xTool D1 Pro with a 20W head (20W output = c. 140W input) and is about the most powerful prosumer diode laser on the market at present.
Diode lasers are less fussy than moving to CO2 or Fibre - they can be easily set up on a simple gantry and the laser is contained in a head which moves around to fire at the material below. - a CO2 laser is generally more powerful, but now you start to get into tubes / mirrors / watercooling / and other complexities - Diode lasers though generally are more limited in what they can engrave / cut (they come out of a history of development from the early days when they re-purposed a CD writer, but with coatings / other tricks you can generally engrave or cut most woods / acrylics / engrave on some metals, ceramics, glass etc. - they find clear tricky (laser goes through) and blue (laser has a blue light), but they are becoming better at what they can do... I am exploring options with mine, but it will cut through 6mm hardwood with no issues at all - cuts plywood easily, cuts black acrylic to make router templates, and I am starting to play with using it to cut veneers for marquetry.

a lot of people using CNC will use both CNC and lasers for different elements / purposes, and in fact many CNCs now come with a laser head...

 

[Peter45@]

Thank you very much for that clear explanation! Is there not a lot of ‘collateral damage’ when it cuts through 6 mm hardwood, ie burning of the adjacent wood? How wide is the ‘kerf’.

 

[akirk]

Some burning yes but you can go slower (lower power and more passes) to reduce burning but it takes longer… also depends on the wood eg maple burns more than eg walnut and shows up more

Kerf is I think about 0.05mm from memory

 

[Peter45@]

Some burning yes but you can go slower (lower power and more passes) to reduce burning but it takes longer… also depends on the wood eg maple burns more than eg walnut and shows up more

Kerf is I think about 0.05mm from memory

Thanks Akirk

 

[Ollie78]

Do lots of research.
Important factors for successful cnc routers are, in no particular order.
Stiffness of frame and gantry.
Accuracy of linear rails, accuracy of ballscrews or rack.
Motion control software and hardware ( I like uccnc and axbb ethernet controller ).
Quality of stepper motors ( these days closed loop is a no brainer) and the drive units to supply the power to each axis.
Quality of the spindle. Note, a quarter inch router is not in the same league as a proper spindle motor.
Do not forget design software.

Personally I would not consider any machine using rubber wheels running on an aluminium extrusion. This is ok on a 3d printer or laser but these have no lateral loading or sawdust to contend with.

Sounds a lot but knowledge is important and also free. Buying or building a bad system is expensive and annoying.

Ollie

 

[akirk]

@Ollie78 - is there a good intro level cnc / brand?

 

[Ollie78]

@Ollie78 - is there a good intro level cnc / brand?

This is not a simple question.
Are you machining 8x4 plywood or engraving tiny jewellery?

I think something like the Axiom ones are pretty good, maybe the ITech ones which are sold under several brands worldwide.
Felder do a small one under the Hammer brand and you would expect it to be good given Felders other kit but if you look at the specifications for the money it is not good at all, very much engineered down to the minimum cost.
The problem with the "entry level" is there is stuff like the x carve and workbee which will work OK to a point but will hit limitations quickly, then generec 60 40 chinese with round linear rails which is a bit of a lottery and often uses "old" parallel port tech and stolen copies of mach 3. Then to get something that will really work properly all the time you need to spend twice as much.

Study the specifications very carefully.

This is why it is often better to build your own. Firstly you can get the performance of an expensive machine for the price of a budget one.
Secondly you can specify it for what you are using it for.
Thirdly you will understand how it works and be able to maintain it etc.

Ollie

 

[akirk]

Fair points - Within the laser world and the 3D printing world there are no brands who do good reliable entry machines where there is a track record of reliability and they are easy to set up and use…

Have bought an entry Chinese clone 3040 and will play with it but with the intention of then buying something decent but it is difficult to know whether you can get something for £500 / £1,000 / £2,000 etc

 

[Ollie78]

Fair points - Within the laser world and the 3D printing world there are no brands who do good reliable entry machines where there is a track record of reliability and they are easy to set up and use…

Have bought an entry Chinese clone 3040 and will play with it but with the intention of then buying something decent but it is difficult to know whether you can get something for £500 / £1,000 / £2,000 etc

This is not a bad way to go I guess.
You can learn the process of going from model to gcode, speeds and feeds etc.
You can do good work on any (most) machine if you work within its limitations.
This will give you a good understanding of what to look for in your next machine.

I would suggest you won't get any change from 2k for a small machine "off the shelf". But you can build something very good for the same money if you don't need it to be too big.
I got lucky with mine, I was set to start building one myself when a second hand "home made " one came up on a forum.
I took a risk and did have to do some work on it, as its pc blew up after about a week. I upgraded to ethernet motion control with UCCNC and a second hand pc and it's pretty good now.

Ollie

 

[sploo]

Fair points - Within the laser world and the 3D printing world there are no brands who do good reliable entry machines where there is a track record of reliability and they are easy to set up and use…

Have bought an entry Chinese clone 3040 and will play with it but with the intention of then buying something decent but it is difficult to know whether you can get something for £500 / £1,000 / £2,000 etc

For 3D printing I'd argue the Creality Ender 3 models are entry level, pretty reliable, and pretty easy to set up and use (depending on your definition of "easy").

CNC is just that bit harder due to the rigidity requirements of pushing a spinning cutter through material. There are enough belt based models around now that (I guess) it can't be completely terrible, but personally I'd want something running on ballscrews or rack and pinion, and on proper linear slides. At any decent size that's unfortunately going to cost money.

I'm slightly on the fence with Ollie's suggestion about building your own; if you know what you're doing, have the machinery to make the parts, and either understand current machines (to make a design) or are working from a good design, then I agree you could save money and make something good. However, I do see a fair number of unfinished CNC projects for sale; presumably because the builder ran out of time/ideas to get it finished.

 

[Ollie78]

For 3D printing I'd argue the Creality Ender 3 models are entry level, pretty reliable, and pretty easy to set up and use (depending on your definition of "easy").

CNC is just that bit harder due to the rigidity requirements of pushing a spinning cutter through material. There are enough belt based models around now that (I guess) it can't be completely terrible, but personally I'd want something running on ballscrews or rack and pinion, and on proper linear slides. At any decent size that's unfortunately going to cost money.

I'm slightly on the fence with Ollie's suggestion about building your own; if you know what you're doing, have the machinery to make the parts, and either understand current machines (to make a design) or are working from a good design, then I agree you could save money and make something good. However, I do see a fair number of unfinished CNC projects for sale; presumably because the builder ran out of time/ideas to get it finished.

I agree about the ender 3 being pretty easy to get started, I have one, currently out of commission due to blobbing from the extruder, hoping it's dodgy filament !!

As for building your own cnc, I would suggest some basic mechanical competence is required and attention to detail.

At this point there are many well proven designs and principles that can be copied.
You can have parts cut by either cnc or water jet for a reasonable price these days and motion control components can be bought from China direct.
My main issue was going to be the control cabinet and power supplies etc. but these can be bought complete from places like cncdrive.

Ollie