Aligning table saw fence

[diyfiesta]

You need both roll pins fitted, do not try to change the holes as they would have been drilled with the table and fence set properly. They create a proper reference, something else is loose. With the roll pins inserted and the casting with the hand wheel bolted up (it won’t move with the roll pins inserted) nothing else holding the table to the base maters for fence alignment.

It sounds like someone has been ‘playing’ with the saw. I’d next check the L shaped brackets are tight and adjusted properly.

Im in a similar bind to @guineafowl21 fetling to try and get the blade aligned to the mitre slots. I get it aligned with just one pin in (RH) but when the other pin goes in, it takes it out again!

Can you elaborate what you meant by the hand wheel @deema pls? and the L brackets? I could see anything in the standard diagrams/manual…

cheers

 

[deema]

@diyfiesta It would be really surprising if the blade is out to the slots, may I ask how are you determining that it’s out when both pins are inserted? If it is out, by how much?
Have you verified the slot isn’t worn? Is the blade the same amount out when measured from the slot on the LH and RHS of the blade?

 

[diyfiesta]

Thanks for the reply. I used a combination square in both slots just kissing a tooth, then rotated the tooth. Working front the back (as you face the saw). I was waiting for a new blade to ensure the old blade wasn’t also in the mix.

It’s about 1mm (to the eye), I haven’t figure a way to measure it accurately. When I have all the bolts out and a single pin in, I can get it super close (again to the eye and combo square).

The slots look good to me. I gave the whole top and slots a clean up and measure 19mm with a vernier along.

I’m reluctant to mess with the trunnions or other bits inside as I know what you said about the wholes. I’m suspecting the order by which I reassemble. I’m doing pins then bolts holding the trunnion “plate” to the side then the four outside corner table bolts.

So close to my first proper table saw…!

 

[deema]

The usual way of pinning something is to bolt it up, adjust it to where you want it and then drill the pin holes. For this reason, I haven’t yet come across a saw that’s out. But, there is always the first..

First things first though, take the blade off, and the belts to the motor, pin and bolt the top (if the Pins fit it doesn’t matter what order you do things) and pop your hand in and give the spindle a good waggle, and I mean a really good hearty waggle. Any movement felt in the spindle? If so, you have problems with the bearings / spindle mounting.

Check the fixed and removable flanges on the spindle, that’s the big disc the blade sits against, for both resin, or more likely dings. Place a ruler over the surface to try to get a feel for how flat they are. Any rubbish here will push the blade off and give you a duff result. When restoring machines I always have to remachine the fixed flange they are never concentric to the spindle due to operator enthusiasm!! How much they are out is variable.

 

[diyfiesta]

Will do, thanks again.

Out of interest (and to line up if needed) where do I go for belts and replacement bearings?

Ttfn

 

[deema]

I tend to use BearingsRUs based in Yorkshire. Excellent service and very helpful. You can order on line. Alternatively 4bearings who mainly sell on eBay, but I do get things direct usually. They are normally next day delivery and excellent prices even on eBay.
You should 100% definitely always replace the belts. They take a set and make anything run terribly / reduce bearing life. Belts stretch a fair bit in the first couple of days, so readjustment will be necessary.

 

[diyfiesta]

First things first though, take the blade off, and the belts to the motor, pin and bolt the top (if the Pins fit it doesn’t matter what order you do things) and pop your hand in and give the spindle a good waggle, and I mean a really good hearty waggle. Any movement felt in the spindle? If so, you have problems with the bearings / spindle mounting.

Check the fixed and removable flanges on the spindle, that’s the big disc the blade sits against, for both resin, or more likely dings. Place a ruler over the surface to try to get a feel for how flat they are. Any rubbish here will push the blade off and give you a duff result. When restoring machines I always have to remachine the fixed flange they are never concentric to the spindle due to operator enthusiasm!! How much they are out is variable.

Top off, belt off (after some head scratching, I tilted the saw and discovered the allen bolts were imperial after all!). I rotated the motor as described and there wasn't much slack in the belts so positioned it about mid-way then 'tracked' the belts off the pulleys.

Can't detect any wobble on the bearings, the feel and sounds ok to me. There's some slight noise but nothing too concerning (to my ear), certainly not a lot of movement. I wasn't relishing identifying and replacing the bearings anyway!

Belts look ok. There's some slight furring on the inside but doesn't look to be significant wear or damage. I'll replace them anyway for peace of mind although I can't identify an obvious replacement. They have 'RS' and 'FEXXER' printed on them and 'Z-570'. Any suggestions on replacements?

The flanges look ok too, the removable ones I lapped lightly on the inside faces a little to be safe and the outsides are a little bowed (in the centres) but figured I'd ask here before lapping, if at all. It's very minor. The fixed flange I can't see any problems with. I had the ruler over everything.
I'll have another go at putting it all together tonight (maybe without the belts) and report back. Some pictures below in case anything else is off (the pulleys don't seem to align vertically but it might be an optical illusion or just ok..?)

Cheers

 

[deema]

For belts all you need is Z570. Z states it’s a Z form of belt and 570 is usually the length inside Li. Any decent brand belt will do. The pulleys must be aligned for the belts / bearings to be happy. This needs adjusting.
The flanges should be dished, the inside raised area should be lower than the outside. This is to ensure the maximum diameter of the blade is pinched.

1mm of error is c0.5mm offset on one side. The flanges are probably a ratio of 10:1 to the blade diameter, so your looking for circa 0.05mm or 50 microns! Not a lot. Very easy to ‘lap’ things and get them that far out of true be very careful.

 

[deema]

You really need a clock to find the source of the error / rule out what isn’t causing it. Here’s how we do it, you don’t need the setup we have a cheap magnetic stand and clock is good enough, easy to buy of an auction site for not a lot of money.

If nothing feels loose, the other source of error can be the system that allows the blade to angle over, the L brackets sometimes need tightening, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case. In your last picture the fixed flange looks like it may have a ding on the outer edge circa 3 o’clock.

Finding raised dings is best done with a flat very fine stone, (I use a slip) you gently without any pressure run it over the surface. It will / should cut only on raised dings (with zero pressure). A small slip stone reduces the weight / pressure exerted on the cutting face of the stone. You cut them flat with the stone by just running it over the area with zero pressure until it stops cutting. I use one of these:

Rubbing stuff on wet / dry unless you know exactly how to do it will cause dishing / rubbed over edges / get it really out of flat very quickly.

 

[diyfiesta]

Thanks for the tips. I’m constantly debating whether I’m taking on too much with this saw. I’m mechanically minded but as the old adage goes, you don’t know what you don’t know.

It’s enjoyable learning (and I like refurbishing old hand tools) and I tend to be cautious (hence the silly questions) but I do wonder if I should cut my losses or look for some professional help to refurb. For example, I can’t figure out how to adjust the pullies (moving them closer to the motor) and don’t want to exhaust folks patience here).

I think having the whole assembly out of the carcass and on my bench might make things easier but not sure I want to take that on!

All the best

 

[deema]

Sideways and I will be refurbing a Startrite soon, and will be writing a thread about it.
The Startrite saws are wonderful saws, better than most new stuff you can buy.

Looks like the motor pulley needs tapping in a bit. Usually a grub screw on the side of the pulley to slacken and gentle tapping to align it and retighten.

Taking the whole mechanism isn’t too daunting. Take off the motor, release the 4 screws holding the cast panel to the saw body and it’s free. Support the mechanism whilst undoing the screws. (Or tip the saw upside down and then take the screws out which is what I do)

 

[diyfiesta]

Having said all that, I popped the motor off after all (and without and tears or swear words). There’s a grub screw on one pulley and a woodruff key so I’ll have a play and see if they can be moved in closer to the body.

Can believe how heavy the motor is!

 

[diyfiesta]

.
Looks like the motor pulley needs tapping in a bit. Usually a grub screw on the side of the pulley to slacken and gentle tapping to align it and retighten.

Ps just how gently is “gently”? I bored a hole in a block of wood so I could get somewhat even “knocking force” and tapped with a pin hammer and apart from shaking more saw dust out, not much movement. Should I get a bigger hammer!?

 

[deema]

It’s either the grub screw has gauged up the key stopping it moving, or it’s rusted up. Take the rear cowel covering the fan off and stand it on end and pour some penetrating oil down and leave it an hour or two. Then use a bigger hammer. The rear shaft wants to be on something solid but wood. This is to stop the shock loads going through the motor bearings. If it still doesn’t want to move try heating it up with a plumbers torch, turning it while your doing it, get it really hot and then let it cool down, do not point the torch at the motor shaft. Add a bit more penetrating oil and give it another tap. If it still won’t move give it a good bash.

Alternatively, to get it moving use a puller if you have one. Very useful tool if you don’t have one for all sorts of jobs. You will be exerting a lot of force to get the pulley off with one if it’s rusted. If you get it off and have had a Billy do, don’t worry to get another is easy and not very expensive,

 

[Sideways]

500g Thor copper / rawhide mallet is the usual weapon of choice

 

[diyfiesta]

Thanks, I’m going to buy a few bits (a puller and some sort of clock which may take longer to source) and regroup. Thanks for all the help, will come back when parts and tools have arrived and I’ve either made progress or made a mess of things. I’m keen to measure the run out and potentiometer for the flanges to be off so when I do come back, I’ll hopefully have a bit more info.

All the best.

 

[diyfiesta]

Quick update whilst I source a clock/mag it stand. I bought a cheap Roslon pulley which meant I could get the motor pulley off and clean the rust on the shaft to be able to align the pulleys again. That side of the bearings actually seem to move a little so it makes sense to me that there was undue pull on that side of the saw arbor.

Anyway, put it all together and fettled some more. Using some feeler gauges, I’m approximating 0.48mm off at the rear of the saw blade - pointing away to the left of the operator. Is that a lot?

As I say, going to get a few more bits and see how I go. Atm that feels to much (cos I can see it).

Ttfn

 

[Ttrees]

It maybe a red herring if the blade is not parallel with mitre slots when at 90
if you haven't also checked how parallel it stays when tilted.
Deema mentioned there's adjustment for that on my Startrite, so I would presume the same thing for a Wadkin.
So hoping it might just true itself up when I attempt that, as it's very apparent should one scoot the fence close, no feelers needed to see the skewed error on mine.

@deema Glad to read you are revamping one of these
I'll be keeping my eyes peeled.