Just how bad are cheaper planes?

[DBT85]

Just finished my table and need to plane the top to remove the joint lines where the board glueup wasn't perfect. Biggest margin is 1mm and the there are only 4 total joins on the 8 ft table (5x 195mm wide boards)

Anyway, the only plane I own is a Draper Expert. A real cheap one as I needed to size some doors in the house. It did it's job. Come to today and one of the screws that secure the frog to the base has shred it's thread and it doesn't look like a standard machine thread from what I can compare it to. Regardless, its only a #4 and wasn't great to start with.

Now I'm left with the dilemma of buying something fractionally more expensive (£50-70) and eventually getting frustrated, or I've been umming and ahhing over the Quangsheng package deal over at Workshop Heaven which would do very nicely, but its also cost more than the table (hammer).

This has been my first real woodwork project, though I doubt very much it'll be the last as the wife is already pining for a garden table and wants the wardrobes and drawers done over.

So how bad are we talking for something like the Irwin Record jack plane for example?

I've never had an issue paying for my tools as they all get use.

 

[D_W]

Find a record plane with the sharp corners at the top of the iron, and that has a clean casting and clean little used iron and cap iron.

You can get one of the Chinese planes, and it'll work fine, but they're overweight and no more capable than a dialed in vintage plane.

 

[jpor4180]

If you're patient on ebay you can pick up a set of vintage record or stanley planes for £70

But for £25-£35 you'll find a restored Stanley or Record no 4 should be perfect? I've been told Irwin Record is no good and they're all just chinese stuff with the name on. But never used one so can't tell you if that's accurate

There are some really fantastic bargains to be had in the second hand market. I regularly find gems on gumtree that people have done a bolt for bolt restoration on

 

[DBT85]

I'll have a further look on ebay and gumtree. My concern really is not knowing what's good and whats not, whats old and good and whats not quite so old and pants.

With a new item that's gained a favourable reputation its not something I need to worry about.

This is listed as a Vintave Stanley #4 for example, but I don't know either way. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Stanl ... SwjRpZQaQm

Or this is a vintage Stanley #7, but again, is it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-STANL ... SwXY5ZSTIw


Or this Record #5 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Recor ... SwN2VZUiF6

 

[jpor4180]

the no. 4 looks good, I'd have a punt at that one

there's no evident pitting or anything which is good and it looks pretty freshened up - people tend not to go to the trouble if it's pants as you say as there's so many out there

I'd just go for the no 4 for now if I were you. I have a no6 that I'd probably use to get the thing really perfect but if I didn't own it I really don't know how bothered I'd be

I'm really not a hand tool user though and I'm relatively new to all this myself

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That No.5 is sound for the money as far as I can see. No.5s and No.5 1/2s are good general purpose planes, No.7s are a very useful, but too big for day to day use for most people.

 

[DBT85]

the no. 4 looks good, I'd have a punt at that one

there's no evident pitting or anything which is good and it looks pretty freshened up - people tend not to go to the trouble if it's pants as you say as there's so many out there

I'd just go for the no 4 for now if I were you. I have a no6 that I'd probably use to get the thing really perfect but if I didn't own it I really don't know how bothered I'd be

I'm really not a hand tool user though and I'm relatively new to all this myself

Is it only pitting on the sole I'm worried about or in any of the surfaces? I'll have a flutter and see what occurs.

 

[Beau]

Most cheap planes can be tuned to do a half decent job. Fettled a few planes for folk over the years and even the naffest ones can be made to take reasonable shavings. Get the sole flat, blade sharp, good fitting cap iron and close up the mouth (if designed to do so) and it will work. Sure a poor blade wont hold an edge for long but blades can be changed on most models. Just have recent(ish) Record 5 1/2 myself and never felt the need to upgrade.

 

[AndyT]

A really cheap way to get round the problem of the stripped thread on the frog screw would be to leave the plane outside until the parts are nicely rusted solid. :wink:. (Make sure nobody else spots it as a restoration project.)

Alternatively, choose a position for the frog and epoxy everything into one fixed setting. Very few people routinely change the frog position.

 

[DBT85]

Ha, thanks Andy.

I'll see if I can source a replacement screw for a reasonable price first.

 

[ED65]

Just how bad are cheaper planes? Well it depends on a few things, first of which is which brand specifically (but there's a little less in that than you might suppose). The main thing is whether you get a lemon or not and when you pay less you're definitely not paying for any decent level of QC!

I wouldn't class modern Stanley stuff in quite the same category as they're not really cheap, but even they are subject to the occasional lemon according to some buyer accounts, where either they need a lot of fettling or there are enough cumulative faults that the plane can't be made to work properly.

I think the best of the cheaper planes are the Faithfulls, but even Silverlines (despite being much maligned) can be perfectly decent buys. Graham Haydon used to have a video on YouTube where he fettled one of those to a high level and Paul Sellers gave one a once-over and pronounced it a solid buy.

But with the wealth of really decent secondhand planes in the UK you stand a very good chance indeed of getting something better, possibly lots better, for less money if you buy vintage. Old Records and Stanleys (both English and US-made) abound and infrequently some of the brands recommended to me in this thread turn up so there is quite a bit to pick from.

Ebay is the expensiver way to go about getting one of these, much much cheaper usually would be car boots of course and usually less would be Preloved or Gumtree.

 

[ED65]

My concern really is not knowing what's good and whats not, whats old and good and whats not quite so old and pants.

Even without knowing old planes well you can use normal discernment to see what looks a bit cheap and what looks a more solid or better-made bit of kit, this will naturally get supplemented with other cues if you do a bit of research on the better buys in the older planes so your eye will become more trained about what to look for.

Condition-wise there is wide latitude, you can salvage things that literally look like they're only fit for the skip; many of those posted here over the years! But obviously aim for a bit better than this

With a new item that's gained a favourable reputation its not something I need to worry about.

Unfortunately you do still need to have a grain of worry about that. The Rider planes for example, general consensus is they're well made and a reasonable deal for the money but the occasional lemon has been reported. How bad each of those planes was is an open question but that was the judgement of the people who bought them.

Is it only pitting on the sole I'm worried about or in any of the surfaces?

Actually if you don't mind it aesthetically pitting is nearly irrelevant, wherever it is on the plane. To be unequivocal that's: anywhere on the body casting or the frog, anywhere on the iron (including the back/the side opposite the bevel).

 

[Bm101]

Amateur Opinion Warning: I'd go for the 5. Leave the 4 or 4 1/2 till later. The 5 is more suited to what you want and it's buy it now. It's a reasonable price/condition if you want a plane today. It'll do everything the 4 will do more or less. More for what you want it for for your table but close enough for smoothing smaller stuff. You always take your chances online. it looks reasonable. If you can set it up ok you could have a lifer for 25 quid. If you can do a small amount of work and fettle it, cap iron, sharpen, general clean up with any luck you might not need another plane. If you decide you need a range well.... thats up to you now isn't it?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes. It looks to have a good iron as well. That's a good price, even inc. P&P. - they seem to be fetching more and more . Our market trader sold five over the weekend and he is not cheap - £70 for a decent No.6.

 

[Trafalgar]

Most will work fine unless the sole is twisted. This is the first thing you should check.

 

[DBT85]

Thanks folks

I missed out on that 4 but I'll keep plugging away. Actually picked up a Record 5 that looks ok as I missed that original one.

I've picked up 3 stones from ITS anyway as whatever happens I have chisels/knives that need an edge.

Spent a good while this arvo watching Mr Paul Sellers while chanting "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" as he worked his magic!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'd have the No.5 over the No.4 anyway - probably a better iron if not a better plane, and more useful.

 

[DBT85]

Well I've picked up a Stanley 4 and a Record 5 so that's me sorted hopefully.

 

[custard]

The very worst plane is still miles better than the average weekend wood butcher. However, this isn't the whole story, it's perfectly possible for the enthusiastic amateur to end up with a plane that he or she is incapable of fettling into a usable condition, for example a cap iron that doesn't seat properly on top of the iron is a common fault that will bring many woodworking careers to a juddering halt.

That's the real benefit to most beginners of spending a bit more, it'll likely work straight out of the box.

But if you're patient and prepared to methodically analyse problems (and frankly if you're not that person then you won't enjoy working wood no matter how good your tools are) then most older or cheaper planes are capable of first class work.

Good luck!

 

[DBT85]

But if you're patient and prepared to methodically analyse problems (and frankly if you're not that person then you won't enjoy working wood no matter how good your tools are) then most older or cheaper planes are capable of first class work.

I think most that know me would describe me just like that, after the standard expletives.

Also ordered a little 15x15 scrap of leather for a strop from ebay for a couple of quid, already have a little oak to glue it to. And some alu oxide to polish. If its good enough for Sellers it'll do fine for me.

So for about £150 I've got 2 (hopefully) solid planes, 3 diamond stones, a little leather and some polish.

My sharp things shall be sharp indeed.

Thanks again folks, all been very useful!