working out timber prices based on cu ft

[mickthetree]

Afternoon all

Having never bought timber from a proper timber merchant before, only second hand boards here and there, I wanted to confirm I've got my head around it.

Example: Oak board 1" thick x 12" wide x 12ft long = 1CUft correct??

According to British hardwood's website this would be £36.30 correct?

That seems quite cheap for quite a large board of wood.

Could I just turn up there and ask for a board that size and pay that amount? Or are there typically minimum quantities, order values?

I have a contact who has acquired some boards and wants to price them at something less than market value. Are there any timber suppliers who show actual or example boards on their websites with prices?

Cheers

 

[n0legs]

Sounds about right.
I buy from these :-
http://www.wentwoodtimbercentre.co.uk/
Their pricing page is fairly straight forward, but there is a shortage of pictures.

 

[mickthetree]

Many thanks nolegs
just what I needed to know. That looks like a cracking timber yard there!!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

It's not quite that simple because there aren't many boards cut to those specific dimensions. The dimensions tend to be somewhat random, although with square edged stock the boards are fairly close to 1" width increments, e.g., 5", 6", 7", etc, with some rationalisation made for part inches either up or down, e.g., 6-3/8" will be tallied at 6" and 6-5/8" called 7" wide for calculating purposes. It gets a bit more complex for waney edged stock, but I'll not go into that here. How it works is something like as follows.

To make up a table top 6' X 36" X ~3/4" thick you work out what you need to get that. Typically, something like American white oak will be square edged, usually between 6" and 9" wide with most of the waney edge removed, and in 9 ft to 12 ft lengths. So you can work out that you will end up buying something like 7 pieces 10 ft long X 6" wide X 1" thick. Each board, as you can see in this case, is 4 ft longer than you need. The reality is you'll typically lose about 6" length from either end, sometimes more than 6" and sometimes less, to account for shakes and any other faults that you can't use. You end up with a bunch of shorts (offcuts) that you either find a use for on another job, or perhaps store for a while before you burn or throw them out!

Anyway, basically you can quickly tot up roughly what you need to buy, in this case something like 7 pieces at 10ft X 6" X 1" = 420. Divide 420 by 144 = ~2.92 ft³. Multiply this by the price and add the VAT (if required.)

Of course some boards might be less than 6" wide and some wider, so the merchant measures each board, works out the volume, and adds it altogether to give a total. For example, a piece 9 ft X 5" X 1" = 0.31 ft³, and another 11 ft X 7" X 1" = 0.53 ft³ = 0.84 ft³.

As to minimum quantities, that depends on the merchant. You'll need to ask if that's the case. Most merchants dealing with retail customers will sell just a few boards, but they may insist on picking the wood for you, others will let you sort and pick. John Boddy Timber seem still to be showing examples of timber at their website, even though I was under the impression they are no longer in business. There are bound to be other merchants with similar photographs if that link goes dead. Slainte.

 

[John15]

Good Timber near Northampton give a price list. http://www.goodtimber.com.

John

 

[custard]

Are there any timber suppliers who show actual or example boards on their websites with prices?

Yes there are, and it's a trend that's probably on the increase even though it must be very time consuming for the timber yard.

Surrey Timbers has photos of some of their stock. And English Woodlands Timber is in the middle of upgrading their system to post photos.

But nothing can compare with getting yourself down to the yard and actually looking at the boards. Photos are useful to get an idea of what's available and to decide if it's worth the trip, but it's only when you pull the boards that you can really start to evaluate if the colour and grain are what you want, and if you can fit your components between the inevitable knots and shakes. Plus for many projects you'll need an assortment of different thicknesses, and if you're jointing up a top for example you may well want boards cut sequentially from the same log in order to book match. By the way, that's one of the nice innovations English Woodlands have introduced, sequential stock numbers means sequential boards.

Good luck!

 

[RobinBHM]

To calculate cubic feet:

Thickness in inches x width in inches x length in feet ÷by 144

eg a 6" x 1.5" boards 8ft long 6 x 1.5 x 8 /144 = 0.5 cb ft

If given prices in cubic metres divide by 35.2 for cubic foot price.

For estimating purposes, very roughly, allow 35% for waste on square edge boards. Wastage is highly dependant on whether the supplier has suitable widths and lengths.

Note that although timber is priced by volume, cubic foot or cubic metre, a price is set for each thickness, so 3" oak will be much more expensive than 1" oak. Wide boards above 9" may have a premium rate.

 

[Rhossydd]

It's certainly daunting for the first time buyer when buying hardwoods.
Buying sawn square edge timber is usually pretty straight forward as it's easy to calculate the volume of the timber. So, for example, most imported American timber, Oak, Maple, Walnut etc is easy to buy. It's also pretty easy to understand and see what you're getting.
The baffling bit is when buying waney edge boards.
Merchants that court the amateur market often helpfully mark up individual boards at a specific price which makes knowing what you'll pay a lot easier, but others seem to magic prices out of thin air. The price asked will depend on type, classification, defects, dimensions, demand and if they like you.
It also takes a fair degree of skill and experience to really know what you're buying. My advice would be to ensure you buy more than you think you'll ever need. There always sees to be more wastage than you expect and it's always nice to have spare for tests, setting up or just to 'have in stock'.

 

[xy mosian]

According to British hardwood's website this would be £36.30 correct?

That seems quite cheap for quite a large board of wood.

Could I just turn up there and ask for a board that size and pay that amount? Or are there typically minimum quantities, order values?

Mick,
As luck would have it I have recently bought timber from British Hardwoods for the first time.

Importantly I can report they are a friendly bunch.

Their stock is available by the length, for example I was allowed to sort the lengths I wanted and then charged for the length, mostly 3m. My mistake was that I didn't allow enough for wasteage. Trying to re-work cutting plans mentally when faced with so much timber nearly did for me. I am making a couple of chairs, supposed to be anyway, each needed about 0.5 cu ft. I bought 1.5 cu ft to find that because of difficulty with the cutting plan I am having to hunt for matching material in my workshop. At their prices it would be worth, in my opinion, buying in excess to cover mistakes such as mine.

Just in case it is relevant they were happy to make cross cuts to get the timber in the vehicle. Just make sure that doesn't leave you with pieces a couple of inches short, as I did , you won't.

For cubic footage calculations my version goes like this. 1 square foot is 12" x 12", therefore 1" x 12" is 1/12 square foot, a 12' board is need to make a cubic foot. At least that bit worked well in my head, if little else did.

By the way have a good look in their 'scrap bin' you may find useful pieces, normally priced at £1 per Kg, scales available.

Enjoy the experience. I shall be going there again when I need to. Next time will be easier, perhaps.

xy

ps. I have no problems with any of the timber I bought. It may be worth giving them a ring to check stock before travelling too far.
xy

 

[n0legs]

Many thanks nolegs
just what I needed to know. That looks like a cracking timber yard there!!

Yes it is. They're a very helpful and friendly bunch.
There's no rushing, you can have a look through the timber and reject stuff you don't like.
It really helps out when you've got good people to deal with, especially if you feel a bit out of your depth.

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Chaps

Thank you all for the feedback. As mentioned in the original post I have a friend who has some sawn boards and wants to see some prices online to gauge what he can sell his for. Its all stock from a furniture makers that has closed down.

There are loads of really nice off cuts that could be used for smaller projects and pricing these by weight could be a much better way to go.

You have, however also given me great confidence for when I go to a proper timber merchants for the first time!!