Whats the wooooop about infill planes?

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tobytools

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Why are infill planes so desirable,
Are they better planes than non-infills
or is it just the craftsmanship and beauty if the body and fill? I don't own one but what the reviews if these bad boys? How oftern do they get used? His a basic run down
Thanks. Toby
 
Hi Toby,

I use Stanley and Record planes. Old planes of course. Just because they are real workhorses. Also trying to accomodate japanese planes for some operations.
Veritas, Lee Nielsen and Clifton are overpriced for me. Let's wait, probably in the nearest future I will buy them.
But what do you say after viewing Ron Brese's planes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c0d2ASiycg
They are Rolls Royce among other infills, it seems to me. And no words about their prices :-(((
 
snikolaev28":1yhegk50 said:
Hi Toby,

I use Stanley and Record planes. Old planes of course. Just because they are real workhorses. Also trying to accomodate japanese planes for some operations.
Veritas, Lee Nielsen and Clifton are overpriced for me. Let's wait, probably in the nearest future I will buy them.
But what do you say after viewing Ron Brese's planes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c0d2ASiycg
They are Rolls Royce among other infills, it seems to me. And no words about their prices :-(((

wow, that a "superior" plane indeed. Cheers for link. I'm guessing infill plane are better then, as well as better looking.
 
tobytools":1wl0f951 said:
Why are infill planes so desirable,
Are they better planes than non-infills

No, they're very poor.

Should you have the misfortune to be lumbered with one, I'll take it off your hands, and even pay the postage.

:D

BugBear
 
bugbear":16crfigw said:
tobytools":16crfigw said:
Why are infill planes so desirable,
Are they better planes than non-infills

No, they're very poor.

Should you have the misfortune to be lumbered with one, I'll take it off your hands, and even pay the postage.

:D

BugBear


Hmmmmm, my legs getting pulled me thinks, bugbear do you use these planes offer and what's your experience with them? How many you got?
 
snikolaev28":3c8cmrbx said:
Hi Toby,

I use Stanley and Record planes. Old planes of course. Just because they are real workhorses. Also trying to accomodate japanese planes for some operations.
Veritas, Lee Nielsen and Clifton are overpriced for me. Let's wait, probably in the nearest future I will buy them.
But what do you say after viewing Ron Brese's planes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c0d2ASiycg
They are Rolls Royce among other infills, it seems to me. And no words about their prices :-(((

Hello,

I bet those Brese planes have wide mouths and cap irons set back 2mm from the edge of the blade, to cut like that. They probably have no weight to them, either, and the soles not flat, because as we know, wooden planes were never flat and worked perfectly well. :twisted: Sorry! :oops:

Mike.

EDIT, no cap iron at all, cheeses!
 
woodbrains":1abxxen9 said:
snikolaev28":1abxxen9 said:
Hi Toby,

I use Stanley and Record planes. Old planes of course. Just because they are real workhorses. Also trying to accomodate japanese planes for some operations.
Veritas, Lee Nielsen and Clifton are overpriced for me. Let's wait, probably in the nearest future I will buy them.
But what do you say after viewing Ron Brese's planes?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c0d2ASiycg
They are Rolls Royce among other infills, it seems to me. And no words about their prices :-(((

Hello,

I bet those Brese planes have wide mouths and cap irons set back 2mm from the edge of the blade, to cut like that. They probably have no weight to them, either, and the soles not flat, because as we know, wooden planes were never flat and worked perfectly well. :twisted: Sorry! :oops:

Mike.

How ever they're set I need to know :)
Toby

EDIT, no cap iron at all, cheeses!
 
Apart from planing technique, using a sharp blade and solid bedding of the blade, there are three ways to prevent tearout in difficult kinds of wood.
- High cutting angle, above 50 degrees is where you are starting to see an effect.
- Tight mouth, really tight, about 0.1mm tight. And the sole should press down on the wood, so no wear allowed at the edge of the mouth.
- Chipbreaker set close to the edge. Very close, more then 0.3mm from the edge renders the chipbreaker mostly ineffective.

You can combine these three, but you should watch out that you don't get a clogging mess in your plane. And each of them is usually effective in its own right. I seem to remember that Brese uses a high angle and a tight mouth. The vintage infill planes had tight mouths, but also a chipbreakers and usually bedded at 45 or 47,5 degrees.
 
Just my tuppence,

The original idea of dovetailed infill planes was to eliminate casting stresses that are found in Stanley type planes. When metal is cast it contains stresses that, over time, even out. This warps the plane, meaning that it needs to be flattened.
Dovetailing flat pieces of steel together means that no stresses are formed (this is a slightly touchy subject, some argue that stresses are still there, albeit far less than the cast counterpart).
These U-shaped dovetailed sections can then be made into planes, and infill is the decided upon option.
Thus, infill planes should never need to be flattened!

Now, that said, old USA Stanley planes and equivalent have had enough time that the stresses should have pretty much come out, so a flattened USA plane should stay flat. (This can also be seen in chisels, and is why modern chisels are thicker than old ones, but that's another story)

I think, more than anything, that the reason why infill planes are popular now with collectors and the like, is that they represent the finest craftsmanship of toolmaking. Sheffield, at its height, was producing arguably the finest tools in the world, and the infill plane is seen as the pinnacle of that achievement.
In terms of practical usage, they work. They work very well, but arguably no better than a Stanley plane of the same vintage.

All the above said, please take what I say with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert!

Fraser
 
Duncumb.fc":2iwzwxxu said:
Just my tuppence,

The original idea of dovetailed infill planes was to eliminate casting stresses that are found in Stanley type planes. When metal is cast it contains stresses that, over time, even out. This warps the plane, meaning that it needs to be flattened.
Dovetailing flat pieces of steel together means that no stresses are formed (this is a slightly touchy subject, some argue that stresses are still there, albeit far less than the cast counterpart).
These U-shaped dovetailed sections can then be made into planes, and infill is the decided upon option.
Thus, infill planes should never need to be flattened!

Now, that said, old USA Stanley planes and equivalent have had enough time that the stresses should have pretty much come out, so a flattened USA plane should stay flat. (This can also be seen in chisels, and is why modern chisels are thicker than old ones, but that's another story)

I think, more than anything, that the reason why infill planes are popular now with collectors and the like, is that they represent the finest craftsmanship of toolmaking. Sheffield, at its height, was producing arguably the finest tools in the world, and the infill plane is seen as the pinnacle of that achievement.
In terms of practical usage, they work. They work very well, but arguably no better than a Stanley plane of the same vintage.

All the above said, please take what I say with a pinch of salt, I'm no expert!

Fraser

Nice input, many thanks, I might start a collection but very ££££
 
Definitely!

I was at Ford a few weeks ago when a dealer turned up with probably 20 original infill planes.
They were all stunning but unfortunately even one would have turned my bank account red!

Perhaps you could make one? I went to visit Bill Carter in Leicester a while back, and his work is stunning! Worth checking out his website, which contains a wealth of information about planemaking.
Jim Kingshott's Making and Modifying Woodworking Tools is a fantastic book too.

Fraser
 
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