what are CLIFTON doing.....

[Fromey]

Not sure why there is still speculation on the colour change since we got this from the horse's mouth in this very thread.

We decided on a colour change due to the quality of paint work. If you check out your green ones, you will note they often look lumpy. This is not a finish we liked or preferred so the simple colour change was NOT thought out round a table whilst drinking coffee (I have never drunk a cup of coffee, nor do I ever plan on). The cost of paint is actually higher but we hoped this would give a more aesthetically pleasing look. It is also a great way to mark a change. A new start. The phoenix rising from the ashes. I am aiming to work for the new Clifton generation and encourage new users, not blemished by previous opinions of others. People willing to try something because they want to, not because they have read some personal opinions (often very in factual) on a forum.

 

[deema]

It's very interesting that the marketing and styling of a product has been dictated by 'lumpy pain't. Surely un-lumpy free paint exists? can be mixed by either an alternative supplier or indeed by discussions with the existing supplier. I have never seen this type of decision being made on this type of logic before.

I used to manufacture parts as a first tier supplier to the automotive industry. I rememberer fondly the conversations I had with them and can only imagine the response if I suggested that they needed to change the styling or colour of a vehicle because the paint I was using was a bit lumpy and instead of the specified green.

Before anyone highlights that car manufactures make millions of units and it's not a fair comparison, I also dealt with very very small vehicle manufactures who made less than a hundred a year.....same applied. Again, before the price issue comes is raised they all wanted their products for about 20% more tha the raw material price irrespective of the engineering effort required to manufacture them and a cost down of 10% year on year.. It was nickel and dime ,,.....but I learnt a lot of new and colourful language that has served me well over the years!!

 

[Trafalgar]

I have a tendency to believe that in the year 2014 green paint is available in a non-lumpy version, or why is the graphite coloured paint not lumpy but the green is?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Nobody said the colour change altered performance, you just added that for a "collectors" jab.

A small poke you must admit, because I said "a bit more interested in collecting than using" which is not the same as saying only interested in collecting.

Something I'm not - but don't let your ignorance get in the way of your bigoted view...

Ha, ha. I might be ignorant, and perhaps bigoted - I can't tell, but your seeming outrage at my mild comment does come across quite strongly as a collector's defence. I don't see being a collector as a poor reason to buy things, whether it be planes, stamps, paintings, or whatever. With regard to Clifton planes I'm not motivated to buy one because of the colour, simply because I'm far more interested in the tool's functionality. The question I ask is, does it do the job I want it to do effectively at a price I can afford, yes or no? If yes, I'll buy it. If no, I'll look elsewhere.

I'm not up for a Jellybean set. I like'em green.

I like the green too but, to me, the colour is a superficial decoration. Slainte.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Richard, I guess it's fortunate that your customers don't take the same pragmatic I don't care what it looks like it's only a tool and does the job approach when buying their furniture, otherwise they would settle for flat pack from ikea or argos rather than commission one of your own pieces, after all they'll all hold a cup of coffee or whatever so why worry about what they look like !

I don't think you're really comparing like with like. I think the Clifton bench planes are attractive work tools in their green livery, but as I've just said to iNewbie the colour is, to me, a superficial decorative element, and whilst it could be argued that this is integral to the Clifton 'persona', I can't see how a different colour, as proposed or suggested by Thomas Flinn, alters the ability of the planes to perform, assuming there are no other changes in the manufacture and quality control. And maybe Thomas Flinn, in part, are saying the new colour marks the transition from one manufacturer to another - green came from Clifton: grey from Thomas Flinn. Slainte.

 

[iNewbie]

your seeming outrage at my mild comment does come across quite strongly as a collector's defence.

I'm not outraged at all. Just havin' a joshing poke back.

I don't see being a collector as a poor reason to buy things, whether it be planes, stamps, paintings, or whatever. With regard to Clifton planes I'm not motivated to buy one because of the colour, simply because I'm far more interested in the tool's functionality. The question I ask is, does it do the job I want it to do effectively at a price I can afford, yes or no? If yes, I'll buy it. If no, I'll look elsewhere.

I don't have to bring the word collector into this scenario at all. You don't have to be a collector to want an item to match earlier items you may have purchased that are finished in a particular livery when you know the tools functionality is fine.

I could only imagine if they made a Festo tool in a different colour to their brand marketing system how they'd be up in arms! :lol:

 

[iNewbie]

Richard, I guess it's fortunate that your customers don't take the same pragmatic I don't care what it looks like it's only a tool and does the job approach when buying their furniture, otherwise they would settle for flat pack from ikea or argos rather than commission one of your own pieces, after all they'll all hold a cup of coffee or whatever so why worry about what they look like !

I don't think you're really comparing like with like. I think the Clifton bench planes are attractive work tools in their green livery, but as I've just said to iNewbie the colour is, to me, a superficial decorative element, and whilst it could be argued that this is integral to the Clifton 'persona', I can't see how a different colour, as proposed or suggested by Thomas Flinn, alters the ability of the planes to perform, assuming there are no other changes in the manufacture and quality control. And maybe Thomas Flinn, in part, are saying the new colour marks the transition from one manufacturer to another - green came from Clifton: grey from Thomas Flinn. Slainte.

Look at it another way. If you built 4 custom Oak chairs and one of the chairs was way darker than the others would the customer be happy. Would you say: you should be more interested in planting your backside on it than its aesthetic look. Its as comfy as the others.

Peoples minds don't all work the same way.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If you built 4 custom Oak chairs and one of the chairs was way darker than the others would the customer be happy.

I think that argument is specious. If I build a set of four chairs I ensure the colour matches. There's no discussion needed. Now, if the client goes to another maker and asks for a couple of extra chairs to match, and the new maker can't do it, there might be a problem, but that's between the new maker and my old client - not my problem.

But even that argument doesn't hold water because I'm a custom designer maker. I do one-offs or limited sets the same. Another custom maker should be able to match an existing pattern. I've done it myself. But neither Clifton or Thomas Flinn are custom tool makers, they're both relatively small scale mass producers. Perhaps they're best described as batch production specialists and I suspect their production is based upon a series of standard processes.

Okay, so it's a colour change proposal, and this is alienating some of the old Clifton customers. Perhaps they'll change their mind, maybe they won't. I imagine the final decision (if not already set in stone) will be based upon research the company has undertaken, or has yet to undertake. Slainte.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Nobody's mentioned Bridge City yet (*ducks and runs)...

I have a degree in marketing (for what that's worth). When an established brand is bought and immediately changed, one knows to worry. The implication is, to put it politely, a lack of gumption.

"Branding 101": if money has been invested in getting brand recognition, and the brand values are good, change things at your peril.

This thread is a good example of why that's true. The issues with Clifton seem largely to have been price, supply chain and, to a much lesser extent, quality. Brand image was NOT the problem, yet it seems to be what's being changed. More fools them.

Mr."Flinn", please fix the production, price* and sales channel issues, but if you're sensible, quickly go back to green and leave the brand values alone. Otherwise you'll be destroying the thing you just paid a lot of money for.

E.

*It's already been covered: volume vs. value. You probably can't go "Bridge City" in the UK, as the market over here isn't big enough to sustain that niche. And you need volume to knock down variable costs to an acceptable level. That means pricing the tools to be affordable for MORE people, the trick being to do this without hitting quality. It can be done, but it rarely is done.

[thinks]I wonder if he's still reading this thread, or he opted out after the rather pompous comment about coffee, etc.[/]

 

[deema]

The focus on online marketing is being completely missed at the moment. It is a tragedy when popular uTube contributors such as Paul Sellers are promoting a Canadian brand of saws and other tools. If nothing else, please spend the marketing budget on getting influential people like this to use, promote and blog about your products.

The unplugged woodworker is also promoting the same brand!

 

[jimi43]

Lordy guys...you REALLY don't understand modern marketing...they are doing it now...YOU are doing it now..and the money they could have spent has been saved by just mentioning a paint change...welcome to viral marketing!

Jim

 

[iNewbie]

You mean: Clifton has Ebola, Jimi?

 

[jimi43]

You mean: Clifton has Ebola, Jimi?

HA! Good analogy!! :mrgreen:

But the patient isn't looking quite so green anymore! :wink:

Jimi

 

[Peter Sefton]

Nobody's mentioned Bridge City yet (*ducks and runs)...



Mr."Flinn", please fix the production, price* and sales channel issues, but if you're sensible, quickly go back to green and leave the brand values alone. Otherwise you'll be destroying the thing you just paid a lot of money for.



[thinks]I wonder if he's still reading this thread, or he opted out after the rather pompous comment about coffee, etc.[/]

Eric the Mr Flinn your talking about is a lady who drinks tea! I am not sure if she is still reading.
Cheers Peter

 

[Trafalgar]

Judging by this forum Clifton seems to be less popular in Britain than Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, and a Chinese brand of all things.

The new owners need to understand why this is the case and react accordingly. I'm quite sure that it wasn't an issue of paint color, though now they've made it one.

 

[iNewbie]

Judging by this forum Clifton seems to be less popular in Britain than Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley, and a Chinese brand of all things.

Once the Clifton Planes match the aboves (being black) the universe might right-itself - I'm sure Henry Ford is behind the decision: You can have any colour... :mrgreen:

 

[Mr_P]

Lordy guys...you REALLY don't understand modern marketing...they are doing it now...YOU are doing it now..and the money they could have spent has been saved by just mentioning a paint change...welcome to viral marketing!

Jim

Modern ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

and bet they weren't the first.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Nobody's mentioned Bridge City yet (*ducks and runs)...

Mr."Flinn", please fix the production, price* and sales channel issues, but if you're sensible, quickly go back to green and leave the brand values alone. Otherwise you'll be destroying the thing you just paid a lot of money for.

[thinks]I wonder if he's still reading this thread, or he opted out after the rather pompous comment about coffee, etc.[/]

Eric the Mr Flinn your talking about is a lady who drinks tea! I am not sure if she is still reading.
Cheers Peter

Happy to be corrected.

Ms. "Flinn", please...

Seriously, in my day job, we're obsessive about tracking how the business might be publicly discussed. It's the week-end, so I'll cut some slack, and whoever-it-is-doesn't might reasonably not want to comment, but the fact Clifton is being discussed here ought to matter.

Remind me, how many members are there now presently active? It's quite a few, including some in possible export markets

Tracking on-line activity isn't the same as making policy from it (the latter being ill-advised in the absence of other inputs), but it is really important.

As is sticking to good brand values.

E.

PS: "New Coke" is one of those case studies that pop up on every course - you can argue whether it was brand extension (another no-no) or just trashing brand values. It doesn't matter - the outcome is the same. "Miller Light," incidentally, is the classic brand extension disaster.

 

[jimi43]

Lordy guys...you REALLY don't understand modern marketing...they are doing it now...YOU are doing it now..and the money they could have spent has been saved by just mentioning a paint change...welcome to viral marketing!

Jim

Modern ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke

and bet they weren't the first.

A relative term...as opposed to "Victorian" :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Trafalgar]

Nobody's mentioned Bridge City yet (*ducks and runs)...

Mr."Flinn", please fix the production, price* and sales channel issues, but if you're sensible, quickly go back to green and leave the brand values alone. Otherwise you'll be destroying the thing you just paid a lot of money for.

[thinks]I wonder if he's still reading this thread, or he opted out after the rather pompous comment about coffee, etc.[/]

Eric the Mr Flinn your talking about is a lady who drinks tea! I am not sure if she is still reading.
Cheers Peter

Happy to be corrected.

Ms. "Flinn", please...

Seriously, in my day job, we're obsessive about tracking how the business might be publicly discussed. It's the week-end, so I'll cut some slack, and whoever-it-is-doesn't might reasonably not want to comment, but the fact Clifton is being discussed here ought to matter.

Remind me, how many members are there now presently active? It's quite a few, including some in possible export markets

Tracking on-line activity isn't the same as making policy from it (the latter being ill-advised in the absence of other inputs), but it is really important.

As is sticking to good brand values.

E.

PS: "New Coke" is one of those case studies that pop up on every course - you can argue whether it was brand extension (another no-no) or just trashing brand values. It doesn't matter - the outcome is the same. "Miller Light," incidentally, is the classic brand extension disaster.

Huh? Miller 'Lite' is one of the most successful brand launches in brewing history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_Lite

"Miller Lite was introduced nationally in 1975. Miller's approach worked where the two previous light beers had failed, and Miller's early production totals of 12.8 million barrels quickly increased to 24.2 million barrels by 1977 as Miller rose to 2nd place in the American brewing marketplace. "

Doesn't sound like a disaster to me.

I certainly hope that you aren't claiming knowledge of brand management or marketing.