Some workshop wiring questions....

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ondablade

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Back to the well on electrics again!:D

I'm in the process of sorting out a purchasing list for the bits to wire my one man workshop. I've an electrician lined up to check it all out before connecting up, but he's on holidays and so i've a few questions i'd appreciate some help with bottoming out in the meantime.

The most basic ones relate to consumer unit, MCBs, RCD, circuits and isolator arrangements. The shop has an existing RCD and MCB equipped 8way consumer unit (CU), but given the need to supply most of my machines and the inverter driving the dust system fan directly (3 and 4Kw single phase) i'll need more ways/circuits than it can support.

Plus i'd like to be able to shut down all power in the shop (i.e. machine supplies and 13A sockets but not lights and alarms) on a single switch, while leaving the laundry room (under the same roof), lights and alarms fed from the original CU so that they stay on at all times.

To minimise wiring I'm thinking in terms of leaving the existing CU in situ to feed everything that does not require to be isolated as listed above. I thought then that i could take a spur from the feed to it to feed a new CU (to be placed directly below it) with its own RCD and MCBs. Putting the feed through a 65A isolating switch (the CU will have an isolator, but they are not i think meant for everyday use?) would make it possible to isolate the new CU.

The questions coming to mind are:

1. Is this general arrangement OK in principle?
2. How should the incoming feed to the existing CU be tapped into, and is this OK to do? What sort of junction box? The existing incoming cable is armoured, runs up the wall to the CU in a small galvanised steel duct, and has an OD of about 12mm.
3. Will a correctly sized MCB adequately protect the 4kW Yaskawa single to 3 phase inverter driving the dust system fan, or should i also fit the fast acting 80A class T fuse suggested in the manual? (actual max output by the book is only 21A - the ramp function will minimise start up current)
4. Will the inverter or any of the other typical loads in the shop cause problems with MCBs or the RCD? (i.e. are they suited, or do i need a split type e.g. some channels without RCD protection?)
5. Will a suitable CU be in any ways special?
6. The plan is to use 32A wall sockets on dedicated circuits for the larger machine supplies. (all > 13A, some > 16A) They have their own on/off switches. Do i need to use a wall mounted isolating switch as well?

Some incidentals:

6. Any thoughts on using flex vs. the solid conductor grey cable for misc. fixed wiring?
7. Is 2.5mm2 cable OK on socket ring mains (should handle 30A by the book - there's a max of 6 X 13A sockets on any circuit), with 4mm2 for spurs?
8. The lighting is split into 3 circuits, with the most heavily loaded running 6 X 116W fluorescent battens = 700W approx. The book suggests 5A/1mm2 cable, but is this a little marginal given it can handle 1100W max?

Anything else to watch out for with this sort of installation?

Pardon the length....
 
Ian,

I'm not up to speed on latest wiring regulations so will refrain from answering your questions leaving them for qualified sparks.

I would however suggest you think about the cutting power to all sockets in the workshop. You might want to leave some powered up for charging cordless tools and perhaps some backgound heating?

Cheers

Bob
 
The only comment I'd make is that if you are fitting lights then make sure they are of a type that don't trip the MCB when they 'go'. For reasons that aren't worth going into, my workshop is lit with snazzy halogen lights.. Guaranteed to trip the MCB on switch-on should one of them go. At least, to date, none have blown while on....
 
Ta Bob. Hi Roger. One bit of information i ran into is that i may need type C MCBs to prevent unwanted trips with inrush currents from the fluorescent lighting and the blower motor on start up.

This could possibly be an option for you too, but this is the sort of stuff i'm hoping this thread may address as i've only seen what i read in the past few days.

Here's an article on the topic http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/1826/cm/ ... -bcd-.html Type C MCBs apparently allow a higher surge for a longer time than type B. Another option it seems is to go a slightly larger MCB, but either way you have to stay within the IEE or whatever regs. and i've no idea what they have to say on the topic.

It also comes up occasionally that the RCDs fitted to many consumer units that detect leakage between phases/phase and neutral may also be prone to nusiance tripping caused by fluorescent lights and inverters/VFDs. This forum looks at some of the issues: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm? ... 8&page=439 The answer may be (but i'm not sure) what is called a split consumer unit - that way you can supply the circuits likely to cause trouble without going through an RCD, and those that should be OK via the RCD protected terminals.

I think i'll maybe just fit no RCDs to the new consumer unit, as all the potentially problem circuits will anyway be wired can from it.
 
ondablade":2gku4i0g said:
Ta Bob. Hi Roger. One bit of information i ran into is that i may need type C MCBs to prevent unwanted trips with inrush currents from the fluorescent lighting and the blower motor on start up.

Running your blower motor from an inverter will prevent high current spikes and so a type C breaker will not be needed for this circuit.

Bob
 
ondablade":3lcxsod3 said:
......
It also comes up occasionally that the RCDs fitted to many consumer units that detect leakage between phases/phase and neutral may also be prone to nusiance tripping caused by fluorescent lights and inverters/VFDs. This forum looks at some of the issues: http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm? ... 8&page=439 The answer may be (but i'm not sure) what is called a split consumer unit - that way you can supply the circuits likely to cause trouble without going through an RCD, and those that should be OK via the RCD protected terminals.

I think i'll maybe just fit no RCDs to the new consumer unit, as all the potentially problem circuits will anyway be wired can from it.

That's the drawback of many websites ...ie no date given as to information. I've not looked at that site but the type of split load CU you mention ...ie with one part unprotected by an RCD ...is no longer allowed anywhere under 17th edition Regs unless the wiring is fully mechanically protected if installed hidden. Not sure whether this applies to visible wiring eg surface mounted in a workshop. But your sparks should be able to advise.

The 100% surefire way is to pay extra money and install RCBO's on each final circuit.
 
Thanks guys. That's one question sorted anyway Bob. I'd like to spend as necessary to do the job right Roger, but after your point and speaking to a sparks friend this morning it sounds like i'd better hold fire until my guy resurfaces....
 

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