xy mosian
Established Member
Sorry Mark, I missed that image. Still pleased to be a little help. I'm looking forward to the WIP.
xy
xy
Secretaire campaign chest - now finished
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billybuntus
Established Member
Looking forward to the WIP. Plan on doing something similar but with around 6 drawers in the bottom of a large cabinet.
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Xy was on the right lines for the fall flap try these ideas
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6Maz ... ts&f=false
You can buy the brass Back Flap hinges from Martins http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=390
The Secretaire catch http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=373
The Secreaire stay is very poor quality but shows how they should be http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=374
I had made a few flaps over the years, looking forward to how this develops.
Cheers Peter
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6Maz ... ts&f=false
You can buy the brass Back Flap hinges from Martins http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=390
The Secretaire catch http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=373
The Secreaire stay is very poor quality but shows how they should be http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... uct_id=374
I had made a few flaps over the years, looking forward to how this develops.
Cheers Peter
gasman
Established Member
Ah Peter that is great thank you - I have been searching for resources about secretaire desks - the only one I had found prior to this one you sent is this http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=secretaire chest&f=false
which has some interesting ideas and is helpful too
Hopefully going to start gently this week sometime
Thanks again
Mark
which has some interesting ideas and is helpful too
Hopefully going to start gently this week sometime
Thanks again
Mark
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Mark
That looks like a good solution but please don't use those ugly dovetails! :evil:
Mick
That looks like a good solution but please don't use those ugly dovetails! :evil:
Mick
gasman
Established Member
Thanks to all for your encouragement. I started in earnest over the weekend - sorting out the walnut and working out where the drawer fronts etc were going to come from. I had to make a big decision early on whether to use sapwood or not - and I have decided that the sides, top, fronts will all be heart wood and the sapwood I may use for some of the drawer sides and backs. What do others think of that?
Anyway on with the build.
I started with the two sides - and I had one beautiful board with 12" of hardwood in the centre (the board was 17 1/2" wide!) - so used that for 2 pieces 1150 x 305 x 18
Flattening one side using the QS number 6 - it stood up to a real pounding and kept an edge for ages
The two side pieces thicknessed down to about 19mm
Now the top and bottom pieces - which are 72 x 22mm stock which will be mitred together to form the square which will be 570 x 320 with a floating panel
I cut the front and sides from the same piece so the grain flowed round the corners
First mistake was measuring and cutting the sides at 470 rather than 570mm - aarrrggghhh! I will have to use these for something else
Mitres were cut roughly on the table saw then finished using my new 'donkey's ear' for the shooting board - worked a treat and a great addition for big mitres like these
So here is the top, with mitres cut to size etc to see how it all looks
I used some of the offcuts to make the drawer dividers - so the front edge of all the 8 front pieces is heartwood but much of the rest is sapwood - these are the 18mm squares which will provide the drawer runners and also give the cabinet more sturdiness
Finally I took another beautiful board - albeit with a big defect in the centre
and after flatteniing
I cut the heartwood for the drawer fronts in the sizes 76, 91, 109+18+131, 157, 189 and 227mm got to see how the grain will look on all the drawer fronts
So good progress on the most difficult part - I think anyway. About 10 hours in all over the weekend
So I have a couple of queries?
The folding out secretaire bit is made up of 2 of the drawers. At the moment I have this as one piece 266mm x 470 - and was going to leave it as one piece but score lines to mimic the 'gaps' between the drawers and the dividers. Will this look weird - i.e. should I make it of different grained pieces to make it more realistic and look like the others?
Next - what would you use for the back? It will not be seen. I was thinking maybe ordinary 6mm ply? or Walnut faced ply or MDF? or maybe solid walnut thicknesses down to 6mm ?
All constructive advice / criticism gratefully received
Thanks and regards
Mark
Anyway on with the build.
I started with the two sides - and I had one beautiful board with 12" of hardwood in the centre (the board was 17 1/2" wide!) - so used that for 2 pieces 1150 x 305 x 18
Flattening one side using the QS number 6 - it stood up to a real pounding and kept an edge for ages
The two side pieces thicknessed down to about 19mm
Now the top and bottom pieces - which are 72 x 22mm stock which will be mitred together to form the square which will be 570 x 320 with a floating panel
I cut the front and sides from the same piece so the grain flowed round the corners
First mistake was measuring and cutting the sides at 470 rather than 570mm - aarrrggghhh! I will have to use these for something else
Mitres were cut roughly on the table saw then finished using my new 'donkey's ear' for the shooting board - worked a treat and a great addition for big mitres like these
So here is the top, with mitres cut to size etc to see how it all looks
I used some of the offcuts to make the drawer dividers - so the front edge of all the 8 front pieces is heartwood but much of the rest is sapwood - these are the 18mm squares which will provide the drawer runners and also give the cabinet more sturdiness
Finally I took another beautiful board - albeit with a big defect in the centre
and after flatteniing
I cut the heartwood for the drawer fronts in the sizes 76, 91, 109+18+131, 157, 189 and 227mm got to see how the grain will look on all the drawer fronts
So good progress on the most difficult part - I think anyway. About 10 hours in all over the weekend
So I have a couple of queries?
The folding out secretaire bit is made up of 2 of the drawers. At the moment I have this as one piece 266mm x 470 - and was going to leave it as one piece but score lines to mimic the 'gaps' between the drawers and the dividers. Will this look weird - i.e. should I make it of different grained pieces to make it more realistic and look like the others?
Next - what would you use for the back? It will not be seen. I was thinking maybe ordinary 6mm ply? or Walnut faced ply or MDF? or maybe solid walnut thicknesses down to 6mm ?
All constructive advice / criticism gratefully received
Thanks and regards
Mark
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gasman
Established Member
I forgot to ask another question...
I really would prefer if possible the top of this piece not to have a fielded panel in the traditional way - so instead of fielding a panel and glueing it up, in which case the top is not completely flat - there is that recess all round the top where the fielded panel is, I thought about employing a technique I have used on a couple of boxes previously.
So... you cut a 6 or 9 mm rebate in the mitred sides as normal - and then glue it up with 6 or 9mm MDF or plywood piece as the panel (I am going to domino the mitres to reinforce them).
Then, when it is all dry, you take a piece of nice figured walnut about 300 x 150 x 30, cutting it carefully on the bandsaw into 4 pieces 300 x 150 x 6, dry them out inside for a couple of weeks, then when they are dry enough, square them up very carefully and then glue them in a book matched fashion exactly into the top above the plywood. It then appears as if the top of the piece is completely flat - with a symmetrical design in the top. As I said I have done this very successfully for a box but it was A4 paper size nowhere near this big. Anyone done this or got a view as to why it is a bad idea?
Thanks as always Mark
I really would prefer if possible the top of this piece not to have a fielded panel in the traditional way - so instead of fielding a panel and glueing it up, in which case the top is not completely flat - there is that recess all round the top where the fielded panel is, I thought about employing a technique I have used on a couple of boxes previously.
So... you cut a 6 or 9 mm rebate in the mitred sides as normal - and then glue it up with 6 or 9mm MDF or plywood piece as the panel (I am going to domino the mitres to reinforce them).
Then, when it is all dry, you take a piece of nice figured walnut about 300 x 150 x 30, cutting it carefully on the bandsaw into 4 pieces 300 x 150 x 6, dry them out inside for a couple of weeks, then when they are dry enough, square them up very carefully and then glue them in a book matched fashion exactly into the top above the plywood. It then appears as if the top of the piece is completely flat - with a symmetrical design in the top. As I said I have done this very successfully for a box but it was A4 paper size nowhere near this big. Anyone done this or got a view as to why it is a bad idea?
Thanks as always Mark
gasman
Established Member
I have done some 'theoretical' work on the geometry of the fall-front secretaire bit
From the extremely helpful sketch of XY a few posts ago, I have been working out how much of the 18mm frames for the drawers to run on will need to be scalloped out to allow the swing of the fall-front bit
Actually quite complex maths - I ended up with the formula x (the depth of the curved part of the 18mm frame which needs to be removed) = 18(1-cos45)/cos45 - = 7.45mm - so it won't lose too much rigidity which I was worried a bit about
Has anyone got any views on the questions I asked earlier? It is the fall-front I am most worried about - all the pieces for the drawer fronts are from different pieces of walnut - i.e. the grain does not flow in to one drawer from the adjacent ones - plus as I said there is an 18mm frame between each drawer front which is obviously also a different grain. At the moment I have the fall-front one piece - and was going to score lines in it to create faux drawer fronts and the 18mm spacer frame. Should instead I glue up a contrasting grain at least for the 18mm frame to make it look more realistic?
Thanks all
Regards
Mark
From the extremely helpful sketch of XY a few posts ago, I have been working out how much of the 18mm frames for the drawers to run on will need to be scalloped out to allow the swing of the fall-front bit
Actually quite complex maths - I ended up with the formula x (the depth of the curved part of the 18mm frame which needs to be removed) = 18(1-cos45)/cos45 - = 7.45mm - so it won't lose too much rigidity which I was worried a bit about
Has anyone got any views on the questions I asked earlier? It is the fall-front I am most worried about - all the pieces for the drawer fronts are from different pieces of walnut - i.e. the grain does not flow in to one drawer from the adjacent ones - plus as I said there is an 18mm frame between each drawer front which is obviously also a different grain. At the moment I have the fall-front one piece - and was going to score lines in it to create faux drawer fronts and the 18mm spacer frame. Should instead I glue up a contrasting grain at least for the 18mm frame to make it look more realistic?
Thanks all
Regards
Mark
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Hi Mark
You have been working hard, I also like using my QS No6.
In answer to your questions, re the double drawer front I would make them out of two separate pieces with an extra rail between this will both look better and may be more stable if the grain is picked correctly. Re the cabinet top the four piece top sounds good I would keep the solid thin if possible, personally I would have veneered this if I am following you correctly. the solid glued to the ply may either split or make the ply curl up. I like the maths for the hinged flap clearance I would draw it out full size and/or use a cut piece of cardboard with a pin through the centre pivot point to see how much clearance is needed to not fowl the rail.
Cheers Peter
You have been working hard, I also like using my QS No6.
In answer to your questions, re the double drawer front I would make them out of two separate pieces with an extra rail between this will both look better and may be more stable if the grain is picked correctly. Re the cabinet top the four piece top sounds good I would keep the solid thin if possible, personally I would have veneered this if I am following you correctly. the solid glued to the ply may either split or make the ply curl up. I like the maths for the hinged flap clearance I would draw it out full size and/or use a cut piece of cardboard with a pin through the centre pivot point to see how much clearance is needed to not fowl the rail.
Cheers Peter
gasman
Established Member
Thanks Peter that's helpful for your advice and good idea about the grain because of course this piece will not be supported 'square' by the rest of the drawer
The top will be a 'constructional veneer I think - about 2mm - I will use my hand-made drum sander in anger for the first time - made it a couple of years ago but only just got the abrasive etc for it
More this weekend
Kind regards Mark
The top will be a 'constructional veneer I think - about 2mm - I will use my hand-made drum sander in anger for the first time - made it a couple of years ago but only just got the abrasive etc for it
More this weekend
Kind regards Mark
carlb40
Established Member
Sorry can't help with any details, but i am enjoying this. 
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gasman":28llomc6 said:
The 2mm veneer should be fine, looking forward to seeing the drum sander.
Cheers Peter
gasman
Established Member
Finally made some real progress this weekend apart from just choosing, flattening and preparing boards
I had to make 7 of the frames which separate the drawers all made from 48 x 18mm walnut - but I chose heartwood for the visible long pieces (504mm long) and other pieces containing sapwood for the side pieces (250mm long and the rear piece (408mm)
I trued them all up on the shooting board - which to be honest I don't know how I ever managed without
These were domino'ed with 5mm doms
and then glued up and clamped one at a time
The frame which is below the fall-front has to have a scalloped groove cut i it - which is 36mm wide, 7.5mm deep and has radius 25.5mm - so I marked 36mm from the front edge with the marking gauge Adam gave me for secret santa - it is so beautiful
then used a 1/2" coving bit to cut it out bit by bit like this
Once it was done roughly, I used a round card-scraper to finish it
and then glued up this frame as before
Once they were all dry I planed both sides completely flat carefully and put them to one side
Another instalment later as it won't let me add any more images
Cheers
Mark
I had to make 7 of the frames which separate the drawers all made from 48 x 18mm walnut - but I chose heartwood for the visible long pieces (504mm long) and other pieces containing sapwood for the side pieces (250mm long and the rear piece (408mm)
I trued them all up on the shooting board - which to be honest I don't know how I ever managed without
These were domino'ed with 5mm doms
and then glued up and clamped one at a time
The frame which is below the fall-front has to have a scalloped groove cut i it - which is 36mm wide, 7.5mm deep and has radius 25.5mm - so I marked 36mm from the front edge with the marking gauge Adam gave me for secret santa - it is so beautiful
then used a 1/2" coving bit to cut it out bit by bit like this
Once it was done roughly, I used a round card-scraper to finish it
and then glued up this frame as before
Once they were all dry I planed both sides completely flat carefully and put them to one side
Another instalment later as it won't let me add any more images
Cheers
Mark
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gasman
Established Member
Turned to the sides of the cabinet - these needed to have 5mm deep grooves 18mm wide cut across for the drawer frames to sit in - so after a lot of careful marking out and rechecking I used a i/2 inch spiral cut router bit in a Festool 1010 router running along the rail - it was fiddly to alter it but the micro-adjust feature of the 1010 was really useful
Eventually it was all done
And then a dry run of the cabinet -at which point I had had enough for the weekend and was aching a bit
About 20 hours or so in all so far
Cheers
mark
Eventually it was all done
And then a dry run of the cabinet -at which point I had had enough for the weekend and was aching a bit
About 20 hours or so in all so far
Cheers
mark
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Looks like another busy and productive weekend.
Peter
Peter
gasman
Established Member
Made some progress in an hour or so tonight after I got home
Carefully planed the insides of the vertical cabinet sides - I will put some oil on before glueing up
Then cut a rebate at the back of these same side pieces on the router table for the back - which will be 1/4" something - anyone any ideas whether it could be plywood or whether it needs to be solid wood?? If I got 1/4" walnut-faced ply I could use that for the drawer bases too??
Went to Oxon Fastenings to try to find some back-flap hinges in brass but they don't have any so I found these on ebay for £9 including postage - they should polish up OK
Also worked out I have just about enough sapwood to do the sides of all the drawers - outstanding - the wood is all about 28mm - so if I am very careful and get a new bandsaw blade I should be able to resaw down to 2 x 12mm? Need to find backs too.... mmm might need more walnut!
Ian I need a couple of new blades! 22 hours so far
Regards
Mark
Carefully planed the insides of the vertical cabinet sides - I will put some oil on before glueing up
Then cut a rebate at the back of these same side pieces on the router table for the back - which will be 1/4" something - anyone any ideas whether it could be plywood or whether it needs to be solid wood?? If I got 1/4" walnut-faced ply I could use that for the drawer bases too??
Went to Oxon Fastenings to try to find some back-flap hinges in brass but they don't have any so I found these on ebay for £9 including postage - they should polish up OK
Also worked out I have just about enough sapwood to do the sides of all the drawers - outstanding - the wood is all about 28mm - so if I am very careful and get a new bandsaw blade I should be able to resaw down to 2 x 12mm? Need to find backs too.... mmm might need more walnut!
Ian I need a couple of new blades! 22 hours so far
Regards
Mark
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Hi Mark
Walnut faced ply sounds like a sensible idea for the back and drawer bottoms as you won't have any movement issues, the hinges in the picture are Table hinges rather than Back flaps. The main differences are the Table hinge has one leaf longer than the other usually to span the cove on a gate leg tables rule joint, this may be useful to you depending on how you are going to resolve the detail between the flap and the table top. The knuckle on the Table hinge is on the opposite side to the countersunk holes of the leaf compared to the back flap hinge. Just thought I would point this out incase you hadn't noticed, this will change this centre of pivot on the falling flap.
http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... 100&page=2
Cheers Peter
Walnut faced ply sounds like a sensible idea for the back and drawer bottoms as you won't have any movement issues, the hinges in the picture are Table hinges rather than Back flaps. The main differences are the Table hinge has one leaf longer than the other usually to span the cove on a gate leg tables rule joint, this may be useful to you depending on how you are going to resolve the detail between the flap and the table top. The knuckle on the Table hinge is on the opposite side to the countersunk holes of the leaf compared to the back flap hinge. Just thought I would point this out incase you hadn't noticed, this will change this centre of pivot on the falling flap.
http://www.martin.co.uk/index.php?route ... 100&page=2
Cheers Peter
Baldhead
Established Member
I'm enjoying this.
Baldhead
Baldhead
gasman
Established Member
Hi Peter - thanks for pointing that out - actually I saw those on ebay and thought they look perfect - because the 2 components of the fall flap are cut at 45 degrees - so because these hinges have more length on one side they will have more wood underneath and I can put a full 3/4" brass screw in there
Also - I liked the fact they are 'upside-down' as it were - as the pivot of these hinges has to be exactly positioned correctly and these hinges will still be flush with the top when they are at the correct depth. Anyway we'll see when they arrive
Thanks guys
Mark
Also - I liked the fact they are 'upside-down' as it were - as the pivot of these hinges has to be exactly positioned correctly and these hinges will still be flush with the top when they are at the correct depth. Anyway we'll see when they arrive
Thanks guys
Mark
