Ray Iles Mortising Chisel: Nice!

[Marlow]

I've recently taken out my new Ray Iles OBM chisel for a test drive, and I am
quite impressed. It is a substantial piece of hardware. Very nice machining of
the D2 blade. Takes some time to get that D2 back polished and the bevel
"shave the hair off your arm" sharp, but the effort was clearly worth it. I was wondering
if this chisel is popular in the UK, given the apparent abundance of vintage OBM mortising chisels in
your neck of the woods?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hello Marlow, and welcome to the forum!

When Ray started making mortice chisels, they were only available in North America, I think. However, after some pestering, he has made them available through his secondhand tool business, www.oldtoolstore.com . They aren't cheap, at £45 to £60 a pop, though. The comments I have heard from people who've treated themselves are universally positive, especially on edge retention.

It's true that vintage OBM chisels are fairly readily available through internet auctions and secondhand dealers. Prices tend to be about £10 to £25 a go including postage depending on source. Not all of the oldies are in very good condition, though. Handles can be replaced fairly easily, but years of abuse and mis-sharpening to the pointy end can sometimes be harder to sort out.

By the way, given that it's duty is to be whacked hard into timber, a mortice chisel doesn't really need the sort of refined edge you'd put on a paring chisel. An edge from a fine India stone or equivalent is all that's required. Anything finer will be knocked off it at the first whack.

 

[Marlow]

Well thanks for the welcome.

Interesting about the availability of the RI in the UK: I just assumed that since it was made
in your country you would have had these available before us, and at a better price.

As far as edge prep goes, I have been paring a very shallow trench to help register
the chisel more easily, and I pare all mortises first, prior to commencement of whacking.
Yes, even the D2 deforms once the mallet starts its work: I really should have a 5/16"
bench chisel reserved for the paring operation which would allow me to go far longer between
sharpenings on the RI.

 

[Mike.S]

I have a range of OBM chisels - mainly second hand Sorby's picked up on the online auction site. However, I did buy one new Ray Isles version - beautifully put together but not yet used in anger. I forget the full story but recall that Ray Isles made them at the request of a well known US woodworker, for the US market - perhaps because the UK is well served by used examples. When I called to order one, a lady (Mrs Isles?) seemed almost surprised that I wanted to order, explained they were aimed at the US market and left me with the (perhaps unintentional) impression that she was doing me a favour selling one at a price above that advertised on their site! As an aside she mentioned that manufacturers only added leather 'washers' between the handle and chisel - not as a shock absorber but because they struggled to accuartely make the handle a snug fit. Cretainly one or two of my examples show this 'fault' (but no leather washer).

Overall, seems a good product but cr*p marketing and indifferent service imo.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have a couple of originals in my tool kit and love using Ray's, the D2 steel and large oval handle just feel right when being used in anger. Here is the story http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... y_Ray_Iles
and Chris Schwarz thoughts on them http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/csch ... tchis1.asp
With the history and the connection with Joel Ray doesn't like to publicise the chisels much in the UK or advertise who in the UK may sell them :wink: People may have seen them at my Open day's
Cheers Peter

 

[Marlow]

My mistake: did not realize that they were not easily obtainable by you guys.
What I meant to say is that they are completely pedestrian, and certainly can't hold a
candle to the vintage chisels that are easily obtainable on the UK ebay. You are not
missing out on anything. Carry on.

 

[matthewwh]

How wonderfully diplomatic!

With regard to price, it is worth remembering that they don't have 20% VAT (sales tax) in America. The small sales tax they do have doesn't apply if you are purchasing from out of state.

The prices shown on the old tool store website are all ex-VAT.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I was having a look at some Ray Iles bevel edge chisels last weekend. Very fine lands, they would be great for fiddly dovetails. These ones belonged to a friend, who bought them on a visit to Ray's store. Could be tempted.

 

[marcros]

i have a tiny Ray Iles bevel edge- 1/8" I think. Based on that one, I think that the set is excellent value for money and I will certainly treat myself one of these days.

I looked at the pig stickers, but used examples were plentiful on ebay, so i went with a few. Are they a British tool then, not widely used (in history) elsewhere?

 

[Marlow]

Are they a British tool then, not widely used (in history) elsewhere?

i

I believe we generally refer to them as "British" oval bolstered mortise chisels or "British" pig stickers, so over here,
we are giving you guys all the credit for these.

 

[Trafalgar]

I had one. Beautifully made but I could barely hone it. Natural oilstones wouldn't do a thing and even on silicon carbide sandpaper it was more effort than I was willing to put in.

As an aside, why in the world would these be made in England but initially only available in North America?

 

[Corneel]

On the continent I don't think I have ever seen a mortise chisel with an oval handle. They are always round. The iron and steel part of the chisel is much like the English though.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I had one. Beautifully made but I could barely hone it. Natural oilstones wouldn't do a thing and even on silicon carbide sandpaper it was more effort than I was willing to put in.

As an aside, why in the world would these be made in England but initially only available in North America?

The Chris Schwarz link posted above by Peter Sefton makes reference to the difficulty of sharpening D2 steel. Even his diamond stones baulked at it. His Norton waterstones did the best job.

Ray also offers some replacement plane blades in D2 steel. I suspect they hold an edge very well indeed - once you can produce it!

As to why Ray came to be making OBM chisels at all is explained in the first link Peter posted, so I won't repeat. I will specualate as to why vintage OBM chisels seem relatively scarce in North America, though. I suspect that America, for various reasons, was much quicker to adopt machine methods and mass production than the UK, and the very traditional nature of apprenticeships in the UK meant that youngsters were expected to do things by hand before being allowed to use machines until comparatively recently. Things may have been a bit more modern in towns, but even up until World War 2 it was quite common for country joiners to make all the fixtures and fittings of buildings from scratch, and the cost of machinery then relative to now meant that many smaller provincial workshops couldn't afford much machinery. I also suspect that standardised machine-made items were much more the norm in America from much earlier, a development that only really became universal in the UK after WW2. Nowadays, it's unusual for a door to be custom made, though given the variety of sizes, windows are a bit different.

So - the American craftsman had machines available earlier than his British counterpart, had access to standardised factory-made products earlier, and thus had no need of specialist OBM chisels from perhaps the early 20th century.

Quite a few of the vintage OBM chisels that come up in the UK are stamped with the War Department broad arrow and date; one of mine is WD 1944, for example, showing that even this late, services craftsmen were issued with 'traditional' hand tools. I gather that OBM chisels were still being manufactured into the 1960s in Sheffield (and manufacture of the lighter sash mortice chisels never ceased - several makers offer them today).

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have ground Ray's Pig stickers on my Tormek and sharpened them with my Industrial Scary without issue. I use the D2 plane blade in my Clifton when planing down laminates full of Cascamite which kills the edge on lesser steels. When I first used my T7 the reshape a camber on the plane iron it took over 1/2 hour, I regaled this to Martin Brown of Brimarc one day he was in my workshop we grabbed a new D2 from stock and reshaped it in two minutes. I was being far to light handed with the grinder that's the difference over the T3.
Cheers Peter