plywood for furniture and a table saw

[mickthetree]

I've put some designs together for some bits of furniture made from good quality plywood which I will hopefully sell.

I've planned out how I can mass produce some of the items to bring costs right down.

I've found some info on here and elsewhere re furniture grade plywood and as I understand it, I would require s grade / improved plywood.

Q1. Is this the right material to use? Edges will be on show in some cases, others will be painted.

Q2. Anyone recommend a good supplier in the beds / herts / bucks area?

I have some ideas for finishes but some pieces I intend to leave plain.

Q3. I will need some sort of finish to protect the pieces, but would oil be a suitable finish on plywood to keep it looking plain?

I want to get good edge cuts on this stuff and for getting repeatable cuts for mass production I think a table saw will be the best option. I only have a 10 x 7 shed so space is an issue. I plan to rip the boards down to a more manageable size with a circular saw then make the rest of the cuts on a table saw inside the shed.

I want to keep costs down and am looking at the TS-200 from axy as I've seen lots of good reviews on here.

Q4. Any other recommendations in the TS-200 price range?

Q5. any particular blade suitable over others for cutting plywood for a really good edge?

I also want to round over some of the edges on some of the pieces. Is this just not worth doing on plywood? are there special router bits to use with ply?

Will also need a router but will borrow one to start with whilst I make up the prototypes.

Would appreciate your input on the questions above and any other pointers you might have in this area.

Cheers!

Paul (ideas buzzing round my head)

 

[andycorleone]

Hi if you are going to cut a mostly sheet materials I think something with a sliding table would be better like the Jet JTS-600 Saw. for quality ply I think you need a big supplier like http://www.lathams.co.uk/

 

[Streepips]

I think your enthusiasm might lead you to attempt to over rate the capabilities of the smaller machinery. For a start you would need a saw with a scribing blade which I doubt you will find in the range you are considering.
For a profiled edge on ply ideally you need a hardwood plant on the edge to machine.
Workshop size will be a big issue as well, you need all the space you have for assembly and storage.
My previous workshop was small, but bigger than what you have and I was pushed for room for panel cutting on a Scheppach 2500, and if it was repeat work , say X amount of identical cabinets then space would soon run out. That workshop was 30 foot by 11 foot, so in your 10x7 you will struggle.
When I did get an order for a multiple of cabinets( for example) I made out cutting lists and farmed it out, so that instead of umpteen sheets of ply to handle and dimension I had panels precut to size and could concentrate on trim and assembly. By trim I mean moulding etc, not trim to size.
The panels were cut with a CNC saw and were far more accurate than a Scheppach could consistently manage, and if there were any mistakes, it was the suppliers problem not mine.
You need to cost this out of course to see if its feasible for your venture, but here is a link to the people I used, and they were very very good.
I suggest you give them a try, your venture will proceed much more quickly and you won`t spend money on machinery that proves to be inadequate.
http://www.lawcris.co.uk/

Best of luck !

 

[mickthetree]

thanks for your help so far guys.

I really appreciate your honest input.

The pieces I have in mind are small, no bigger than a hi fi speaker kind of size (i'm not making hi fi speakers though ;-)

I did think about how feasable it would be to get all of the parts machined up and sent to me and I just assemble them and finish them here. This is something I will be getting costs on. I've already worked out how I can get boards cut to get the maximum yield from them.

Like you say, this might prove a better way rather than investing in equipment that wont cut the mustard (well plywood).

any advice on finishing plywood?

 

[big soft moose]

The Ts200 does have a sliding table but imo you might be better off with a rail and plunge saw like the dewalt, festool, or EZ systems.

 

[mickthetree]

Hey Big Moose

I made a basic rail system for my cheap B & Q circular saw and tested the finish this evening. Its pretty good really so I imagine I could get pretty good results with one of the proper systems you mention. I've watched a few videos of them in action and they look great. But there would be more setting up time to achieve the same repeatable result I could get from a table saw.

I'm going to get a couple of sheets to test out my prototypes and see what the quality is like.

If not I guess its off to china to get them made. ;-)

I assume a scribing blade isnt something I can get for any saw? Only made for specific models?

Streepips, I didnt get what you meant here:

For a profiled edge on ply ideally you need a hardwood plant on the edge to machine.

Can you elabourate on this?

 

[OPJ]

He basically means that you would need to glue a strip of hardwood (size would be dependant on size and shape of moulding) on to the edge of the plywood first. The plywood edge wouldn't be good enough as you'd end up with voids and it wouldn't be smooth enough for a finish without further filling and messing about... :?

 

[matthewwh]

Avoid oil on plywood like the plague, it sinks in and will cause swelling especially on the edges. For a natural looking finish try sanding sealer, gloss laquer and a matt or semi gloss laquer top coat. Ideally these should all be sprayed on, so you are looking at another job to be farmed out.

There are two kinds of people in the furniture trade who make money - well reputed and connected artists making one-off lifetime investment commisions by hand, and mass producers with huge markets and small margins.

If you are thinking of selling a few dozen of these, I'd seriously consider going to a pro workshop and having them made for you, whacking on a markup and then selling them - trust me that will give you plenty to be thinking about.

If its a serious product with national or international potential in the 1000's then you need to be talking with your bank manager and putting together a business plan. One that involves you getting your hands dirty will lose his or her interest in a heartbeat.

Trying to do a non-shoestring type of business on a shoestring will end in tears.

Sorry if this sound harsh, I genuinely wish you every success, but it aint going to happen with you doing the work using hobby rated tools in a garden shed or garage.

 

[woodbloke]

Avoid oil on plywood like the plague, it sinks in and will cause swelling especially on the edges. For a natural looking finish try sanding sealer, gloss laquer and a matt or semi gloss laquer top coat. Ideally these should all be sprayed on, so you are looking at another job to be farmed out.

There are two kinds of people in the furniture trade who make money - well reputed and connected artists making one-off lifetime investment commisions by hand, and mass producers with huge markets and small margins.
If you are thinking of selling a few dozen of these, I'd seriously consider going to a pro workshop and having them made for you, whacking on a markup and then selling them - trust me that will give you plenty to be thinking about.

If its a serious product with national or international potential in the 1000's then you need to be talking with your bank manager and putting together a business plan. One that involves you getting your hands dirty will lose his or her interest in a heartbeat.

Trying to do a non-shoestring type of business on a shoestring will end in tears.

Sorry if this sound harsh, I genuinely wish you every success, but it aint going to happen with you doing the work using hobby rated tools in a garden shed or garage.

Matthew - I have to agree with your succinct analysis of this kind of business proposition...but where does our very own DanBradTtheAlchemistNaylor (and similar) fit into the equation?..Brad makes money but I'm not sure he fits into either category - Rob

 

[mickthetree]

Hi Guys

Once again, I do really appreciate your honest input.

I'm going to keep looking into this but taking all of your suggestions on board. The mention to B & Q tools was purely for reference. If I do this I totally understand that I would need to invest or outsource.

In terms of plywood, you mention voids, but is it not possible to get plywood without voids?

Also I have some plywood furniture here that is over 30 years old. really basic stuff, used to be called "white wear". Anyway, it was all made by a guy local to us (long since passed on) who put rounded edges on lots of it without hardwood attachments.

Not disputing your suggestions, just wondering how it can be done?

Also this stuff was sold cheap but the grade of plywood used is superb. No voids, no blemishes.

Ok I fully understand that this stuff is 30 years old, but is this grade of plywood just not available any more?

I'm not looking for a get rich quick scheme here, but I genuinely believe that if I can get the production right, I could shift enough units to make it worth while doing. Not mega bucks but enough.

Thanks again

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Guys


In terms of plywood, you mention voids, but is it not possible to get plywood without voids?

Also I have some plywood furniture here that is over 30 years old. really basic stuff, used to be called "white wear".
Paul

Paul - the 'white wear' furniture you refer to was very common in the fifties and sixties as we had some at home when I were a lad. It was good stuff and was made from void free birch plywood, which is still available but make sure you take out a second mortgage :shock: if you want to buy it in quantity - Rob

 

[big soft moose]

There are two kinds of people in the furniture trade who make money - well reputed and connected artists making one-off lifetime investment commisions by hand, and mass producers with huge markets and small margins.

If you are thinking of selling a few dozen of these, I'd seriously consider going to a pro workshop and having them made for you, whacking on a markup and then selling them - trust me that will give you plenty to be thinking about.

If its a serious product with national or international potential in the 1000's then you need to be talking with your bank manager and putting together a business plan. One that involves you getting your hands dirty will lose his or her interest in a heartbeat.

Trying to do a non-shoestring type of business on a shoestring will end in tears.

Sorry if this sound harsh, I genuinely wish you every success, but it aint going to happen with you doing the work using hobby rated tools in a garden shed or garage.

Well put matthew - I have to say I agree with you and cant help feeling that the market for unedged "white wood" type furniture has got to be limited. In the 50s and 60s this stuff was popular but that was before the advent of laminated chipboard furniture, MFI, Ikea etc.

These days china/ india/ phillipines and other such places own the cheap end of the market, and there is no way one bloke in a shed can compete with their buying power and cheap labour costs, and i cant see anyone paying top end of the market prices for painted plywood.

My advice would be by all means make the prototypes yourself in your shed, but dont spend a lot of money on tools to do it - but if you are serious about mass production getting them made abroad and imported is really the only viable option (but dont invest more than you can afford to lose if it all goes ostrich shaped)

folk like brad are offering one off bespoke fitting services (even if they are using MDF) and thus fall into the top end of the market where they dont have to compete with chiawanino competition.