Plunge saw cut defect

[fraxinus]

Evening all,

After purchasing a Makita plunge saw I was getting burn marks on the rail side of the timber. Realising that the saw wasn't parallel to he guide rail, I set about adjusting the saw properly. Following a few test cuts I managed to get burn free cuts on both sides. However since then, as the saw runs out of the cut the blade digs in for the last 10mm of the cut, whether plunged or raised.
Any ideas as to what I can do to correct this?

Thanks

 

[chippy1970]

Yeah you need to buy a festool :grin::lol:

Seriously though the blade shouldnt be parallel to the rail. On my festool I can loosen the saw mounts then you lock the blade down . The blade can then be pushed tight to the rail rubber but you put a small peice of card behind the back teeth. Then lock everything off. So basically as you saw along the rail the back of the blade won't scorch the finished edge.

I imagine you can do this with the Makita too.

 

[fraxinus]

Haha The festool did look tempting, but seemed a little more like it need to be looked after if you know what I mean.

By the saw mounts do you mean the two little wheels you adjust to remove the side play of the saw on the track?
Also Am I right in saying that would be referred to as toe-in?

Forgot to mention that the rail wasn't clamped either. Haven't got round to buying them yet. Could it be that the rail is moving as im finishing the cut.

 

[chippy1970]

Yeah a lot of people say that but in my view festool stuff is tuff enough, I don't throw mine around but it is well made.

No I didn't mean the adjustment wheels. You need to loosen the screws that attach the main body to the base plate. This allows you to adjust the toe in etc. As I say I know I can do that easy on my festool not sure if you can on yours

 

[fraxinus]

Maybe next time eh!

Ah in that case then I may be out of luck, don't think the Makita has those. Will have a proper look tomorrow.

 

[petermillard]

Forgot to mention that the rail wasn't clamped either. Haven't got round to buying them yet. Could it be that the rail is moving as im finishing the cut.

Yep, eliminate any other possible causes for the error before you start mucking about with the toe/heel settings. FWIW I've found Festool to be tough industrial tools that can take copious amounts of abuse without complaint.

Edited to add; I'm assuming the blade is fairly new and/or in decent condition?

Cheers, Pete

 

[Eric The Viking]

@fraxinus: chippy1970 is right. The blade is supposed to toe-in very slightly to the "wanted" side of the cut, which is under the rail. There's a pdf about somewhere on setting up the TS55 that shows how. Festool suggest the thickness of an 80g piece of paper is enough. It's the same for the Makita. One thing to bear in mind though is that the Makita takes two different blade sizes. This must change the alignment slightly, although hardly enough to bother with.

I wouldn't call the second picture a burn-free cut though! With that much "snipe" at the end of the cut (you know what I mean but I can't think of a better term), it does look a bit like technique. Are you leaving enough rail at the end to run off the workpiece smoothly, and do you un-plunge it or change to one handed use possibly, right at the end? Given the necessary toe-in is only absolutely spot-on at one cut depth, it can't also be right as you plunge.

Any pull on the power cord at the end might also be enough. Makita are generous with the cord, but mine is 110V , so usually goes straight into the transformer, which won't be dragged anywhere! I've been caught out a couple of times by that one!

I don't recall having the same problem, but often get burning on the waste, usually in chipboard. It's also a sign that the blade is going off slighly (losing its edges) and/or that it's a bit clogged.

I have found that I do get better results using clamps, and the right sort of blade for the work. Festool and Makita clamps are interchangeable, and the Festool set were cheaper when I got mine, so I have them instead. The other things are keeping the pads underneath the rail clean of sawdust, and the stock too, so that they grip, and, on the saw itself, getting the rail gripping blue knobs set "just so" which for me is slightly tighter than feels right (hard to explain it better!).

It looks like a bunch of things to consider, rather than just one, but I'm only an amateur user, and I'd take advice from the professionals on here every time!

Cheers,

E. (Makita SP6000k owner)

 

[chippy1970]

I have used the Makita rail saws I'm not that impressed with them to be honest but one major thing I noticed was that the rails seem to float about. They don't stick to the material as well as my festool ones. This could be causing your problem too if it was moving as you finish the cut maybe. Just a thought

 

[MickCheese]

I have the Makita saw and don't find any movement with the rails, in fact they stick so well I have to clamp down anything I am cutting or it will move.

I recently bought a new Axminster own brand blade for mine and although I have not used it that much it seems very good, didn't need to reset anything on the saw and was a lot cheaper than a Makita one.

That looks to me like you are over-reaching at the end of the cut and just turning the saw as it exits, I find you do need a good overhang at the end and beginning of the cut.

Mick

 

[Eric The Viking]

One major thing I noticed was that the rails seem to float about.

That's got to be muck on the sticky bits underneath.

One of the staff and I closely compared one of each on the counter top at Axminster a while ago. Apart from the colour, the only difference at all that I could see was the extrusion at the back.

The Makita one has an extra "C" shape because the saw has a retractable anti-tip peg (for tilted cuts). The peg (disc) tucks into that, to catch the saw at the back edge of the rail, so it can't fall off the front edge. The Festool one is U shaped, to take the distance stops and other accessories, but the saws don't have an anti-tip peg so there's no "C" to the profile. Because of it, the Festool stops etc. won't fit on Makita rails, which is a shame, as Makita don't make any (as far as I can tell).

Both companies use exactly the same angle guide (which is rubbish, incidentally - I have one), and my guess is that their rails both come from the same plant.

The Makita saw itself is made in the UK, apparently (well, that's what the label says on mine).

E.

 

[chippy1970]

One major thing I noticed was that the rails seem to float about.

That's got to be muck on the sticky bits underneath.

One of the staff and I closely compared one of each on the counter top at Axminster a while ago. Apart from the colour, the only difference at all that I could see was the extrusion at the back.

No there was no muck under the rail.

They're not the same rails if you have a proper look the quality of the festool rails are way better. I can't explain it further but if you're used to using festool rails ( which I've done for about 6 years now) then you would notice the difference . To me they don't feel as well made.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well they may have changed their manufacturer, but I couldn't see any difference. I've got a friend that uses a lot of Festool, including a 3m rail. I'll take a careful look when I next get the chance.

 

[fraxinus]

I have found a version of the manual for the TS55 online, written far better than the makita one. Even though the saw itself may be made in the UK, the manual certainly wasn't! Explains things in far more detail too. Even thoughe saw itself may be made in the UK, the manual certainly wasn't!

I was trimming some doors down to size today but didn't get the aforementioned skag everytime so I presume it must be down to how I run the cut out. Whats the preferred way to finish the cut. Run the saw out at full depth until the blade has passed the workpiece or raise the blade while still at full speed?
Going to get a set of clamps this weekend with any luck. Then will have to try again.

Though I could lynch whoever decides to use staples in the bottom of doors...

 

[carlb40]

You will find staples in a lot of the cheap doors as i found to my cost many times with my planer blades

They are there for speed. Cut timbers to size, apply glue, staple joints, apply door face. Door made in 5 min.

 

[fraxinus]

Finally found time to get the clamps tested with the rail, and I can report that they did not resolve my issue. On speaking to the dealer he advised me that it could be the set of the teeth that is knackered on the blade. Seems fairly likely to me after dinging through a staple or two. Thats the next step, before sending it back for them to check it over.
Will update when I cough up for a new blade.