Please Help! Solid Wood Flooring Advice needed!!!

[giopirolli]

Hi! Im hoping I can get some advice here! i know nothing of DIY!

I have purchased my 1st flat and didnt like any of the floor options offered by the developer so purchased my own Solid Oak Wood 18mm depth flooring. Its to go down onto a concrete sub-floor. ~60sq metres in total for the open plan lounge/kitchen, hall and study.

What I need help with is with regards to which method to use to put the floor down! :S

Everyone floor fitter i speak to tells me something different. Here is what ive been told so far:

1) Hidden nailing method - however this requires batons/plywood sheets to go down first over the concrete. This method seems quite expensive (quoted £1200 for total job incl supply/fitting of plywood) to get someone to do, lots of work and im worried it will raise the floor by quite a bit and will mean the doors will need quite a bit cut off.
2) Glued to floor - simply gluing the floor down directly on top of the concrete - know someone who had this done and he advised against it as its a nightmare if you ever need to bring the floor back up.
3) Floating Floor with gluing Tongue and Groove - putting dowm some dpm over the concrete and then simply gluing the tongue and grooves together. Read in a few sites that this method is not advised for solid wood flooring due to movement etc? (quoted £15 per sqm)
4) Self-Adhesive Underlay - put down some dpm over the concrete and then this self-adhesive underlay over that for the floor to stick to0. Done some searching as i wasnt aware of this method before and it seems to be recommended - also seems to me as the easiest, most straighforward and maybe cheapest? (quoted £900 for supply of dpm, adhesive underlay and total fitting)

Can anyway please advise? i only have 2 weeks left to decide and also arrange for someone to complete the work!

Cheers

 

[bosshogg]

Ask the developer which way they have prepared the concrete floor for the choice of covering to the floor you say you don't like, then copy that for the one you have gone for, that way you should not have any technical problems...bosshogg

 

[Steel City Man]

Ask 100 fitters and you'll get 100 different replies. Many don't like to float solid wood, but as long as you have nice long planks and nothing ridiculously wide there are many who say it's fine,. However if you have DIY-shed flooring, the ones that come in 'varying lengths' (i.e. lots of 300mm pieces etc), then forget it IMO. Too many joins = too many 'hinges' = asking for trouble.

Personally in your situation, I'd go for the glue method, on the assumption that your fitter is going to ensure you have a DPM in place, and if not, add a liquid DPM first.

As for worrying about taking it up - Why would you wan to spend all that money and then take the floor up? An oak floor is for life

The adhesive underlay is a good compromise, assuming your sub floor is flat. If it isn't, make sure they make it flat before fitting (self levelling compound etc).

Other options include liquid battens, with or without slatted underlay.

Price wise, £900 all in sounds too good to be true. £60m2 of adhesive underlay and sheet DPM is going to cost around £300. So that leaves £10/m2 for fitting. Just make sure the guy is actually good at his job! £15+VAT/m2 plus materials seems to be the bottom end for fitting, going up to £30+VAT/m2 (sure there are people who charge more though!)

 

[giopirolli]

bosshogg - thanks for the reply. I spoke to the developer a while back and he advised that the wood can just be glued down to the floor. He also advised that under the concrete there is already a damp proof membrane.

Steel City Man - thanks for this detailed reply! much appreciated!

Im not sure yet what lengths of planks im getting, im not having it delivered until the 27th June. I could call ahead and enquire and try to ensure I receive only longer planks.....the wood wasn't cheap, just over £2k I paid. Well, maybe that is cheap i dont know! :S

you do make a good point about why would i want to take the floor up...and since i only plan to be in this property for 5/6years then that shouldnt really be a problem! however, this glue isnt cheap is it?

As its a new build I would expect the subfloor to be flat, if not I'd be extremely annoyed! The site manager has won some awards apparently so better be doing a good job!ha

2 of my friends are joiners so could provide the glue, or self adhesive underlay, and ask them to do it for me. problem is they are not very experienced and am just a little wary asking them to do it.....quite a conundrum! :S

 

[ProShop]

IMHO the easiest solution would be to lay a floating floor, but only by using areal wood engineered floor. As you've already bought your floor that not an option unless you can take it back change it. Most decent floor manufacturers usually make the their various floors in engineered or solid in my 35yrs exp.

You mention someone told you about gluing solid floors down being a difficult to take up if needed, but the truth is any wood floor is going to be an issue to take up as you've effectively ruined the floor anyway. If any underfloor services have been installed correctly and screened over correctly then the chances of taking the floor up are minimal to say the least and if there are issues in the future you can always claim on your insurance or the builder.

If as you say you already have the floor imho I would glue it. But check the moisture content of the concrete before work starts, also check the moisture content of the flooring, also make sure whoever fits the floor follows the manufacturers installation guidelines to the letter, get those right and you shouldn't have any bother.

 

[cutting42]

Hi! Im hoping I can get some advice here! i know nothing of DIY!

I have purchased my 1st flat and didnt like any of the floor options offered by the developer so purchased my own Solid Oak Wood 18mm depth flooring. Its to go down onto a concrete sub-floor. ~60sq metres in total for the open plan lounge/kitchen, hall and study.

What I need help with is with regards to which method to use to put the floor down! :S

Everyone floor fitter i speak to tells me something different. Here is what ive been told so far:

1) Hidden nailing method - however this requires batons/plywood sheets to go down first over the concrete. This method seems quite expensive (quoted £1200 for total job incl supply/fitting of plywood) to get someone to do, lots of work and im worried it will raise the floor by quite a bit and will mean the doors will need quite a bit cut off.
2) Glued to floor - simply gluing the floor down directly on top of the concrete - know someone who had this done and he advised against it as its a nightmare if you ever need to bring the floor back up.
3) Floating Floor with gluing Tongue and Groove - putting dowm some dpm over the concrete and then simply gluing the tongue and grooves together. Read in a few sites that this method is not advised for solid wood flooring due to movement etc? (quoted £15 per sqm)
4) Self-Adhesive Underlay - put down some dpm over the concrete and then this self-adhesive underlay over that for the floor to stick to0. Done some searching as i wasnt aware of this method before and it seems to be recommended - also seems to me as the easiest, most straighforward and maybe cheapest? (quoted £900 for supply of dpm, adhesive underlay and total fitting)

Can anyway please advise? i only have 2 weeks left to decide and also arrange for someone to complete the work!

Cheers

Hiya

I have done most of these over the years. Regardless how it is fitted, solid oak will move across the grain. Rule of thumb is about 3-5mm per metre so your critical measurement is the maximum width the floor will be according to the layout plan you have. My last solid oak floor was 4.5 metre wide and moved about 20mm across the whole width

1) Nailed is best but you can get gaps appearing due to individual planks moving and you have the issues of height as you noted. If you hire the kit, it is the most satisfying method of installing a floor, great fun.

2) Not so keen on gluing and wood movement can set up stresses in the joints leading to splitting and warping. Movement should be allowed for not restricted. If you have a concrete floor, you should not need to get under it for anything so less of an issue but the flooring can never be reused as it is destroyed getting it up. Have done it and regretted it like your friend.

3)The advantage of glued T&G is that you get no gaps between boards. If you assess the movement range of the wood (3-5mm per meter) you can make the skirting deep enough to cover and movement. However floating does not seem to be recommended for solid floors. I have done this but only on engineered floors.

4) Did this on my sons room with solid bamboo floor. A bit fiddly and you only get one shot but is a pretty good system really. If you are paying someone else to do it then go for it. The underlay I used was a 3mm foam and gave a nice 'give' to the floor as well as a bit of sound deadening.

Not sure if you have the flooring already but if not I would go for a high quality engineered floor such as Kahrs as it looks as good, installs more easily and does not move anything like as much - approx 1mm per meter.

I hope this helps a little

 

[tomatwark]

Hi

Make sure you fitter has laid a solid wood floor in which ever method you use, I saw a job recently where they got it wrong did not allow enough room for expansion and the floor lifted in the middle.

Also I assume you have not got underfloor heating, or central heating pipes running under the floor.

Tom

 

[giopirolli]

this is all great stuff guys! surprised by how quick im getting responses!

couple of you asked if i already have the wood - already paid for, but not in possession yet as its being delivered on the 27th. Not too keen on changing it as I really like the wood I went for and got a good price. Also, the idea of having solid wood, and not engineered appeals to me for some reason....it may be silly, but to me seems more "real"..."rustic". Dont laugh!

tomatwark - this is why i am wary of asking my joiner friends to do it for me. They have never done solid oak flooring on their own before! Also, there is no underfloor heating or pipes underneath.

cutting42 - thanks for the reply mate. I am leaning towards using the self-adhesive underlay and paying a qualified fitter to do it for me. From the reading on the internet ive done this method is fiddly, but if done right works perfectly fine, like you say, and also allows for movement of the wood.

ProShop - yeah, again you make a good point. i think ill forget about worrying about having to take the floor up! this is something that shouldnt really ever be needed to be done.

 

[Woodchips2]

I laid 18mm solid oak flooring in our hall about 3 years ago as a floating floor with glued T&G joints and have had no problems with it.I allowed a 10mm expansion gap around the edges and replaced the skirtings with some solid oak to match because the floor supplier had some left over from a previous job and he gave me a hefty discount! I found it easy to lay and if you did happen to damage the floor it could be sanded several times.
Regards Keith

 

[misterfish]

I did about 70 metres of solid oak flooring upstairs and did it floating using Elastalon adhesive underlay. It has worked fine. I left about 12-14mm expansion gap under the skirting. What I did find useful were floorboard clamping straps - they look like http://www.toolbox.co.uk/bessey-svh-400 ... 2757-72030 these though I don't think mine were branded. I got mine off Ebay for about half the current cost of the Besseys. If you're interested in them (4 in total) send a PM.

Misterfish

 

[giopirolli]

misterfish - glad to hear someone else laying so much floor using the self adhesive and worked fine! makes me feel bit more confident in using it now!

thanks for the offer, but my joiner will have these. no way am i attempting this myself! :S

The Eriba Turner - yeah gluing the t&g was the method my father first suggested, but not knowing how many shorter lengths of wood im going to recieve, and the floor covering quite a large area, then i feel the self adhesive is prob best for me. Cheers for the advice though!

 

[giopirolli]

One last bit of advice needed guys!

So im going ahead with the self-adhesive underlay method. Do i have to buy the more expensive Elastilon stuff or are the Srewfix own, or Envo-Multi products just as good? these are quite a bit cheaper so im worried about wasting my money. would rather pay the extra if the Elastilon will result in much better results?

Cheers

 

[cutting42]

One last bit of advice needed guys!

So im going ahead with the self-adhesive underlay method. Do i have to buy the more expensive Elastilon stuff or are the Srewfix own, or Envo-Multi products just as good? these are quite a bit cheaper so im worried about wasting my money. would rather pay the extra if the Elastilon will result in much better results?

Cheers

Can't speak to the Elastilon as I used the B&Q (who own Screwfix) version. It is 3mm sticky-backed foam with a plastic liner stuck to it which is not a complicated product. Save your money I say!

 

[misterfish]

I used Elastilon, but this worked out about the same price as Screwfix. The place i got the boards from supplied the Elastilon and the Treatex hardwax oil at very competitive prices. It may well be that the Screwfix stuff is made by Elastilon. Elastilon itself doesn't have any name on it, just on its packaging.

If I remember rightly Elastilon do a number of different products for differng subfloor situations, but I just used the 'basic'.

Misterfish

 

[giopirolli]

thanks for the reply's guys!

I went ahead and purchased the Multi-Envoy stuff. Was significantly cheaper than the Elastilon, and from the searching I done online seems to be just as good. And the fact that the Elastilon stuff doesn't have any brand on it probably means all this stuff is prob just the exact same! as long as it keeps the floor down then I dont really care if it has a brand on it or not!

For £311 I got 70sq/m of Multi-Envoy and 100sq/m of 1000ga DPM (obviously ill just cut it down to size), I consider that a bit of a bargain!

Now for the hard part and laying the floor when I get entry to the flat!

thanks to everyone who gave me advice on this thread! much appreciated!