One-jab efficacy questions
- Thread starter Chris152
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no, you're right. I agree. It would've only been a hang up effort if both of your statements had come from the same person (they'd have been conflicting, but neither is dishonest coming from separate people). My mistake for confusing the two of you to both be the same person.
southendwoodworker
Established Member
I thought the same as I was all focussed on the efficacy rate, the medical professionals all said "take any vaccine given" but in my heart I did feel a bit disappointed to get the AZ rather than pfizer or moderna jab.
I really didn't understand it until I saw this video which explained how efficacy rate is calculated and about how to compare each vaccines efficacy rate.
It explains well how effective each vaccine is in protecting us from death and hospitalisation, the main things we want - and the answer is all vaccines do it very well which is a relief.
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
I know you intended that as a rhetorical question, but the answer is no the U.K. has never had a lid on Covid. The infection rate has been appallingly high. The deaths even more so. The U.K. has done an appallingly bad job of stopping the spread and keep people alive.
I live in a country that until about a month ago had actually controlled Covid very effectively the population is a little larger than the U.K. Even now the total number of Covid infections since January 2020 is 1.4% of the U.K. numbers (65,000 vs over 4 million) and the number of deaths, though there has been an almost 100% increase in the last month is under 200!!! Not per day but since the first identified case in January 2020.
Now we are in wave 2.5 there is a universal mask mandate with fine of £480, not much if your minimum wage is £9 per hour as in the U.K. but here it is £7.7 PER DAY so the fine is 2 months pay. We have a mandatory 14 day quarantine for anyone arriving, it’s been in effect for the last year, you have to get cleared by the government to even get on a flight as the borders are still closed.
So all in all while we probably get a B+ rating, Australia is an A+ the U.K. is an F or more correctly at the end of the alphabet. The only good news is the vaccination.
PS I forgot to mention that the track and trace system has been functioning here since the disease started, so for a supposedly backward country we have been well supported by our system something the U.K. can’t claim.
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Though I do not give the covid situation much attention at all really, Its more the inconveniance it causes for me, IE wearing a mask to go shopping etc, and broke my glasses taking the darn thing off. If the politicians take all the advice from the who and follow there directive as they said they were doing "follow the sience, sience driven" and we end up in a worse state than we were already in. Well the only asumption you can make off that debacle, is that our sientists are just fumbling about in the dark. whoever no one should be allowed to travel outside there own contry for any reason whatsoever, regardless until this flue ist put to bed.
Anyway stay safe
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
There is no evidence to suggest that staying with the same maker of vaccines helps and quite a bit to suggest that a different one provides better protection.
There is no evidence yet to say how long the protection will last. The only suggestion on lifespan is to look at SARS & MERS immunity, it is currently at 17 years and going up year by year. A possible 3rd dose will depend on mutations evading the current vaccination or protection reducing over time. So until there is data suggesting a 3rd injection is needed there is no point in ordering it, is there?
I've phrased that badly haven't I! lol Just reading it back.
Once again, money. Why on earth wouldn't you want to insist on a 3rd dose when you can sell 8 billion of them?
Can anyone help me understand these stats on BBC today? It's a recent study of one-jab efficacy:
'It suggests that around 1% of hospital admissions between December and April were of people with Covid who had already had one vaccine dose.
The study found higher numbers of Covid hospital admissions around the time of vaccination and soon after, before the jab had started to work. Admissions then tailed off as protection from the vaccine built up.
From 21 days after vaccination, when the body's immune system kicks in, rates of admission fell to very low levels - with only a tiny number of deaths from Covid.
In the study, 526 people who tested positive for coronavirus were admitted to hospital from 21 days after one vaccine dose, and 113 died - out of more than 3,500 hospitalised patients in the study.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56933756The stats in the last para don't confirm the 1% claim at all, do they?
eta - they seem to have got the figures wrong - Daily Mail has:
'There were 526 people admitted with Covid three or more weeks after their first jab, out of a total of 52,000 inpatients included in the study.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ple-hospitalised-Covid-vaccine-dose-tiny.html
So that sounds like very good news!
'It suggests that around 1% of hospital admissions between December and April were of people with Covid who had already had one vaccine dose.
The study found higher numbers of Covid hospital admissions around the time of vaccination and soon after, before the jab had started to work. Admissions then tailed off as protection from the vaccine built up.
From 21 days after vaccination, when the body's immune system kicks in, rates of admission fell to very low levels - with only a tiny number of deaths from Covid.
In the study, 526 people who tested positive for coronavirus were admitted to hospital from 21 days after one vaccine dose, and 113 died - out of more than 3,500 hospitalised patients in the study.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56933756The stats in the last para don't confirm the 1% claim at all, do they?
eta - they seem to have got the figures wrong - Daily Mail has:
'There were 526 people admitted with Covid three or more weeks after their first jab, out of a total of 52,000 inpatients included in the study.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ple-hospitalised-Covid-vaccine-dose-tiny.html
So that sounds like very good news!
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Jonm
Established Member
Good piece of information. Explains it really well, particularly the difficulties in comparing efficacy rates. At the beginning of this vaccine roll out Van Tam said , do not get hung up on efficacy percentages. I tend to listen and believe what the two experts on either side of the buffoon have to say. Personally I would take any one of them but I am in the vulnerable age group. I would not touch Sputnik or Sinovac because I do not trust Russia or China when it comes to injecting chemicals in my arm. Perhaps unfairly but novichok in Salisbury has an influence and Chile has come unstuck with Sinovac, high numbers have received one dose and they are back in lockdown, transpires Sinovac efficacy after one dose is 3%.
Jonm
Established Member
Thank you for that very interesting comment, it demonstrates how badly we have done.
UK is also an island country so has an advantage over Thailand and most other countries as everyone is arriving in a controlled way, boat, plane or rail. ( yes I know we have a border in Ireland).
Jameshow
Established Member
sometimewoodworker
Established Member
Our land borders as well as inbound international travel boarders were closed on 26th of March 2020 with 1,045 cases and 4 deaths total at that time, of course since then citizens were permitted to be repatriated but all were quarantined in government facilities, some foreign residents were permitted from October all foreign entrants are required to pay for a 14 day medically supervised hotel quarantine.
I have just heard today that the capital has been locked down with police/army checkpoints, only people with permission from the local government offices can enter. I expect to hear that other cities or provinces may follow in the next few days or weeks, however the capital has 734 cases today, almost ½ the total
Regrettably our vaccination program is just starting with medical and emergency personal getting their first shots a week or 2 ago. This was not considered a problem before the 3rd wave struck as the infection rate was so low. Until February it was at zero outside quarantine.
The U.K. had the ability to do as well but didn’t have the political will to act.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Comparison with Thailand is somewhat flawed.
In the UK we have elections every 5 years when the electorate can express their views and change leadership. Mostly true despite the attempts to subvert the democratic process during Brexit.
Thailand has a military coup or crisis with about the same frequency. A constitutional monarchy (in theory), it is effectively a military state. They have the capacity (and willingness) for suppression of opposition in a way which would be untenable in the UK (and most of Western Europe).
I am not defending UK covid performance but there are far more appropriate comparators. Thailand clearly acted early and forcefully in a way which the UK simply would or could not.
In some respects through their actions Thailand may be storing up future problems. I understand that vaccine rollout has covered only 1 or 2% of the population. When, in a few months time, Europe and the US are largely open for business as usual, Thailand will still be locked down.
In the UK we have elections every 5 years when the electorate can express their views and change leadership. Mostly true despite the attempts to subvert the democratic process during Brexit.
Thailand has a military coup or crisis with about the same frequency. A constitutional monarchy (in theory), it is effectively a military state. They have the capacity (and willingness) for suppression of opposition in a way which would be untenable in the UK (and most of Western Europe).
I am not defending UK covid performance but there are far more appropriate comparators. Thailand clearly acted early and forcefully in a way which the UK simply would or could not.
In some respects through their actions Thailand may be storing up future problems. I understand that vaccine rollout has covered only 1 or 2% of the population. When, in a few months time, Europe and the US are largely open for business as usual, Thailand will still be locked down.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I don’t agree. Given one thing the UK has done well is acting decisively to source a supply of vaccinations I’d say experience suggests getting an early order in is a sensible step.
Good!
And certain politicians are making good money on vaccines.
Blackswanwood
Still Learning
I’m no fan of politicians and find the recent revelations distasteful but am not sure I have seen anything that supports that view? Have I missed something?
Slightly tangential but it seems money has got in the way of doing the right thing with vaccination strategy in India.
order of what, though? If you're looking to get an early order in for mutations, do you get to change your order in line for a different formulation?
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