oak top scraped and oiled

[thetyreman]

I am working on an oak top for another TV cabinet, but I tried my no80 then straight onto oiling with tung/tups mix 50/50 and compared that with the same thing, except sanded it to 240 grit, the sanded version looks kind of dull. What do you think, should I not bother with sanding? will sanding it improve drying times? I'm actually surprised at how good a scraped and oiled surface looks with no sanding at all...

 

[MikeG.]

I always finish with a blade, even if I've sanded (which isn't often). Sanding pushes dust into the surface of the wood, (hence the dullness) which scraping removes....or doesn't generate in the first place if you just planed then scraped.

 

[MattRoberts]

This may be of interest?

https://youtu.be/yC45Cb-p89I

 

[custard]

For an oiled surface there's a lot to be said for not sanding and finishing straight from the plane.

The problem is with thin film surfaces, for example varnish or shellac, and even more so if you're staining the wood. The issue is that planing leaves minute scallops in the surface, and the ridges of these scallops can get you into loads of trouble. Imagine you've stained the surface, then you apply (say) varnish, then you need to sand the varnished surface. If you cut through those ridges with your sanding block and remove the stain then there's no real fix other than stripping everything off and starting again.

A sensible guideline is if you're using a finish that will itself require sanding then start by sanding the workpiece dead flat; but if you're using a finish that doesn't require sanding then there's no need to have a dead flat workpiece and you can sand or not sand, whatever takes your fancy.

 

[custard]

This may be of interest?

https://youtu.be/yC45Cb-p89I

Matt, I think I've seen that link before. I'm less convinced by his conclusion, mainly because he's using a rippled timber, I think what's happening is that his planing is producing micro tear out in the contrary grain of the ripples, which in turn is drinking in the finish and therefore appearing darker. There's a technique for creating a tortoiseshell effect from certain rippled timbers, essentially by staining the timber, this exaggerates the contrary grain to such an extent that timber develops a faux tortoiseshell look. It's exactly the same process and doesn't, in my view, constitute evidence either for or against sanding versus planing.

 

[thetyreman]

thanks for all the help, I decided to use a card scraper for the final surface after planing it, and it looks great, will show some photos once it's complete

 

[El Barto]

Looking forward to seeing it!

 

[MattRoberts]

Matt, I think I've seen that link before. I'm less convinced by his conclusion, mainly because he's using a rippled timber, I think what's happening is that his planing is producing micro tear out in the contrary grain of the ripples, which in turn is drinking in the finish and therefore appearing darker. There's a technique for creating a tortoiseshell effect from certain rippled timbers, essentially by staining the timber, this exaggerates the contrary grain to such an extent that timber develops a faux tortoiseshell look. It's exactly the same process and doesn't, in my view, constitute evidence either for or against sanding versus planing.

Interesting hypothesis. I find all of this beyond my current skills in the finishing department (which up until recently consisted of furiously rubbing briwax!)

Even if you're right, I guess I felt the planed /scraped surfaces looked *better* to me than the sanded - at least on camera

 

[custard]

Even if you're right, I guess I felt the planed /scraped surfaces looked *better* to me than the sanded - at least on camera

It looked better to me too! And if you're paying a premium for rippled boards why not accentuate it?

I guess what I'm saying is that we shouldn't extrapolate from this very specific case to a general conclusion about sanding versus planing/scraping. I agree, this works in this particular case, it wouldn't necessarily work in all circumstances, in fact I can say from bitter experience it doesn't always work even with other highly figured timbers!

 

[custard]

thanks for all the help, I decided to use a card scraper for the final surface after planing it, and it looks great, will show some photos once it's complete

Look forward to seeing it.

It's good to get as much practise as you can with a card scraper, the real skill with a card scraper (as with a spokeshave) is entering and leaving the workpiece. The bit in the middle is fairly straightforward, but it's the beginning and end that shows if you've achieved mastery of the tool. At the start of the cut it's all too easy to get the angle and pressure wrong and leave "chatter" marks, at the end of the cut it's all too easy to dive over the edge and dub over the crisp arris. If you're in an apprenticeship scheme the foreman would have you scrape modest sizes squares of timber and then check that the corners were flat, clean and level with no dubbing or chatter marks. That's what you need to aim for.

 

[ED65]

What do you think, should I not bother with sanding?

I am all in favour of scraping and use it myself as much as possible, but with oil finishes you need to develop a strategy to dealing with sanded surfaces and still achieve uniform results. Because sometimes you'll have to sand some long-grain surfaces of a project that is otherwise finished with a scraper.

Different people have different methods for evening up planed or scraped surfaces with those they sand, and often it involves sanding to a much higher grit than you would otherwise. The high end of the average is around 600 grit, and the occasional person thinks they get an improvement sanding to stupidly high grits beyond 1200.

But instead of all the ultra-fine sanding here's something you should try instead. Sand to 240 as you're already doing, then after thoroughly getting rid of all sanding residue buff the surface with cloth. Immediately you'll begin to see a 'brighter' surface that looks much more like those you've scraped. Experiment with different fabrics. You can also try the rough side of brown paper. With a bit of work you'll have difficulty telling your sanded and scraped surfaces apart.

The old timers didn't worry about this much because of the way they oiled. The standard practice for an oil finish used to involve tons of elbow grease, they rubbed the heck out of the wood every time oil went on so it got burnished afterwards.

 

[thetyreman]

here is the result after two coats of thinned out oil, I've also got an LED daylight lamp now which is so much better for being able to see things clearly

 

[custard]

Well done Tyreman, that looks like a cleanly prepared surface. The jointing of the boards looks pretty tidy too!

 

[El Barto]

Looks real nice and clean. Post pics of the rest of the build!

 

[thetyreman]

Looks real nice and clean. Post pics of the rest of the build!

I will post something next week, it should be finished by then, with a lot more detail, thanks.