Newbie itching to get scrolling

[tanyabub]

Hi all

I don't yet have a scroll saw but I recently stumbled across some scroll saw work on the web. My first thought was 'wow that brilliant' my second was ' I gotta find out how to do that'
I'm very much a practical person and I've always been very crafty, in the nicest possible way of course ;o)
I have been checking out the videos on Youtube, Googling scroll saw info
and of course reading your posts here.
I am still in two minds as to wether to go for a 'cheaper' model just in case it turns out that I can't do it and I'm not wasting too much money or would that be a false economy and maybe I would be more likely to get the hang of it with a more expensive 'better' one like the Axminster which seems to be a favourite round here.
What I would really like to know at the moment is can anyone recommend any books or magazines that might prove a useful read. I'm all for gathering as much info as poss before diving in. WHSmiths didn't seem to have anything relevant and the library wasn't any better.
Many thanks in advance

 

[big soft moose]

my inclination would be to go for a medium priced one - if you arent sure you want to get into scrolling then spending 300 plus on a hegner or dewalt could be a bad move , but on the other hand the very cheap saws from B+Q etc are a bad investment as they are poorly made and may put you off through their lack of capacity

personally i'd say go for something like this http://www.screwfix.com/prods/98459/Pow ... w-240V-90W scheppach are a decent make and it has the power/capacity to get you started , while if it turns out not to be for you you will only be 80 notes out of pocket (and you'd probably get 50 or so back via ebay)

 

[Gill]

Hiya

Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy scrolling when your time comes .

I don't believe the very cheap scroll saws are a good idea either, but my preference would be a different machine to the one Moose suggests: a SIP 01373, which you could probably find cheaper if you shop around . I've never seen the Scheppach in use and some people (such as Losos in this thread) seem happy enough with them. Strangely, nobody has ever posted a picture of a project cut successfully on a Scheppach! I have, however, seen the SIP in use and it struck me as being a decent enough saw for the money.

If you want a book to help you build up your skills, John Nelson's 'Scroll Saw Workbook' seems to be the standard introduction on t'other side of the Pond, but I started scrolling before it was published so I'm not familiar with it myself.

Whatever you do, don't rely on any saw blades that are supplied with your new saw - they're invariably poor quality. Instead, get yourself a reputable brand such as those sold by Hobbies of Dereham, Hegner UK, Shesto, or (my preference) Flying Dutchman from the USA.

Gill

 

[tanyabub]

Thanks for the replies.

My concern was the performance of a cheaper model. I know a bad workman blames his tools and all that, but do you ever get to be a good workman if you don't have quality tools in the first place?
Anyway I shall check out the SIP and Scheppach.
With luck I shall be wading through sawdust in the very near future.
Thanks for the tip about the blades and I shall be off to purchase the book once I finish this post.

Thanks again

 

[big soft moose]

Strangely, nobody has ever posted a picture of a project cut successfully on a Scheppach!
Gill

I'll have to get a photo bucket account set up then gill - tho to be honest i bought it because it was easier to whack it onto a screwfix order than shop arround.

Its a decent bit of kit for what i do (making clocks out of mdf - cutting out love spoon blanks in thin ash/oak) - ive no idea how it would perform for the more complex stuff like you do because ive never tried ...

 

[Gill]

I don't regard the stuff I cut as being complicated (although, I don't seem to be cutting any stuff lately ); I only ever try projects which are well within the capabilities of any other scroller, including novices. Honestly!

So come on, Mr Moose, get that Photobucket account set up. I can't wait to see what your clocks look like and I'm curious to find out where your scroll saw adventures take you. Be daring! Try something you believe to be difficult - it's probably much easier than you think .

Gill

 

[Anonymous]

Hi tanyabub....

You've already been given some good advice but before you buy, have a look as what I consider to be possibly the best value budget saw around at the moment.
This new Rexon VS4003A model has features only normally found on more expensive models which makes it very tempting for a newcomer.
Quick blade changing top clamp as standard plus top-mounted controls are fast becoming the 'norm' and this is one machine that is up to date with those features.

http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;j...ncharset=UTF-8&fh_search=rexon+scroll&x=0&y=0

 

[Gill]

Oooh... a new saw ! I didn't know about that one.

The old Rexons used to be prone to vibration but they didn't have the cast iron table which the new model boasts. I like the layout of the controls and the way the upper arm moves (reminiscent of the DW788, eh ) and it looks as if it can be top-fed too - blade changing should be pretty nifty.

I'd love to hear from anyone who's actually tried one of these machines - they look good.

Gill

 

[Anonymous]

I like the layout of the controls and the way the upper arm moves (reminiscent of the DW788, eh

Gill

Hi Gill,
Just so members don't get confused........The arms are the normal parallel single pivot type and NOT the double parallel link design of the DeWalt which has pivot points at the front of the saw.

I can see why you got confused as the contoured casing makes it look like the arms are pivoted further forward than they actually are.

One thing I forgot to mention which is not in the spec is the motor.
Have a look at the pic again and you won't see one !
This machine has the in-line internal type of motor fitted.

Here's a schematic showing the arm type and motor :

 

[Gill]

Thanks for clearing that up, Alan.



Gill

 

[tanyabub]

I think I have everything else under control but there's a major part of the equation I'm still pondering over......wood.
What would you recommend I start with I have read that some people use MDF to begin with I suppose it could be useful to practice with but I would rather have an end product that actually looked like wood.
My intension is to eventually make silhouette type pictures and possibly dabble with the odd puzzle or two. Although I may get taken in another direction entirely, who knows.
Secondly where to you source your wood supplies, I'm assuming it's not B&Q ;o)

Many thanks in advance

 

[Gill]

I looked for a supplier near you on this list, but Bournemouth seems to be in a woodworking desert . Perhaps a trip up to Yandles in Somerset might be a good idea eventually, but to get going I would practice with some scrappy plywood from a DIY shed. Good quality plywood is expensive.

Looking at Yell.com I found this timber yard:

Built in DIY
936, Wimborne Rd,
Bournemouth,
Dorset
BH9 2DH

Tel: 01202 516225

Which says it sells 'Timber & Board Off-Cuts'. Might be worth checking out.

There's also Timbersource which looks much more appealing.

You might like to ask this question over on the 'General Woodworking' board. We have quite a few members who live near you and they might be able to give you the benefit of their local knowledge.

Gill

 

[big soft moose]

S&L hardwood also do offcut bags / pallets. I think their site is www.slhardwoods.co.uk but it might be .com

as per your question - MDF has nasty dust so if you do use it either wear a decent face mask or use a good dust extractor or both. (to a certain extent this is true of any wood but mdf is particularly carcinogenic)

I'd recomend something like 5mm lime for the sort of thing you want to do - but practice on scrap ply or hardboard first like gill says.

 

[Gill]

... mdf is particularly carcinogenic..

You've hit a raw nerve with me here! MDF is no more carcinogenic than any other hardwood - that's just an urban myth spread about by 'traditionalists' when it was first manufactured. If you don't believe me, check out the Health & Safety Executive's website and read their detailed online assessment. I've been using MDF for years and it's great for segmentation projects although it's not so good for shadow portraits which require strong connecting bridges.

The best material for shadow portraits is undoubtedly plywood, because the cross-layered veneers offer strength no matter what the direction of cut. Any solid wood will always be weakened by fine connecting bridges which are cut across the grain. Moreover, it will offer inconsistent variations of end grain to the air, making uneven moisture absorption a problem, leading to warping. I agree that lime is probably the most forgiving wood in this respect and I've enjoyed success using thick boards of sycamore too, but there's really nothing as stable as plywood. As a matter of interest, plywood was originally designed as a material for fretwork.

I bought a bag of off-cuts from SL Hardwoods a few years ago and it was good value for my husband who has a lathe. Sadly, they were too blocky (my spell checker says there isn't such a word, but I know there is ) to be suitable for any type of scrolling other than compound cuts. And His Lordship snaffled them first anyway :lol:.

Gill

 

[tanyabub]

Please no fisticuffs on my account ;o)
I did consider ply but thought it might split and tear, but then what do I know.
I know of the shop in Bournemouth you mentioned, Gill, I will check it out. As far as I know it's the only Timber shop in the area now since the only other one just closed down. I have also posted on General woodworking as you suggested, so I could find out that there is an Aladins cave full of timber right under my nose that i just don't know about yet.

Thanks for all the great advise

 

[pren]

Hi all.

Having bought my very first scroll saw a few weeks ago from B&Q, I'd have to stand in their corner as regards entry level machines.

I've never used a scroll saw before now so I can't compare mine to the higher-end ones, but I find it to be really easy to use and well made.

I did start using mine with the guard and the foot in place, but i found this to be quite a PITA, so i stripped them off. (Not saying that this is a wise or safe move, but it's what i've found helpful :wink: )

Mine is a MacAllister 120w (IIRC). Picked it up in their clearance sale for £45. So far, I've been practicing with ply and soft woods up to 25mm on the low to medium speed setting with no problems. B&Q's 4mm ply or MDF is a fairly good place to start with for practicing. Around £5 for a 1220mm x 606mm sheet. Beware of voids in the ply, tho.

If you've got the money to spend on the higher-end machines - do so by all means. However, If you're on a short budget or you're not willing to splash out big money right away - I'd totally reccomend the MacAllister.

Hope that helps give a different perspective.

Cheers,
Bryn

 

[Gill]

You won't hear me arguing against you, Bryn . I started out with a Spiralux (which barely even counts as a scroll saw :lol: ) but I used it to make lots of pieces I was happy with. These earrings cut with a Spiralux have to be some of my first ever projects; I even sold them!

Sorry for the rotten photos - my camera can't cope with titchy items.

Until recently, Bruce was cutting his puzzle boxes on an entry level Ferm and getting some lovely results. There's definitely a place for these machines, especially if you're on a budget or just 'testing the water'. Nevertheless, I've seen an awful lot of posts from people who say, "I've got a Chiwanese saw and it's great" and are never heard from again. All I can do is presume they no longer scroll. Certainly, whenever you go to demonstrations or pro workshop, the scrollers use top end machines such as Hegners or Diamonds. If it's possible to get a saw which other active scrollers use, I think you're much more likely to succeed and that's why I usually suggest saws which are used by scrollers who I know have lasted the course.

I'm glad you're getting satisfaction out of your MacAllister, and bravo for speaking out on its behalf =D> . The more comments we get about different types of saws, the better we are placed to decide what may suit us.

Gill

 

[big soft moose]

You've hit a raw nerve with me here! MDF is no more carcinogenic than any other hardwood

we're going to have to agree to disagree here gill (kind of) yes its no more carcinogenic than some hardwoods but this doesnt mean its safe as many hardwoods are extremly nasty (notably yew which nearly killed me one - long story) while oak dust is implicated in nasal cancers

in the case of mdf its technically not the wood but the glue used in its manufacture which has a high formaldehyde content - this is not a problem with the wood per se no one is going to get cancer from living with mdf furniture (though it isnt reccomended for babies and may be implicated in cot death - i digress) but the dust is a different issue.

MDF also machines to a finer dust which stays in the air longer and is harder to clean up than hardwood. - that said i use it all the time , im not saying dont , i'm saying be careful and use good dust extraction - which is sound advice for any timber.

another digression - anyone who is worried about emmisions from mdf, chipboard or any other formadehyde source in their homes - get a peace lily , they scavenge formaldehyde and similar chemicals from the air and sequester them in their growth. and they are quite pretty too.

 

[big soft moose]

You won't hear me arguing against you, Bryn . I
I'm glad you're getting satisfaction out of your MacAllister, and bravo for speaking out on its behalf =D> . The more comments we get about different types of saws, the better we are placed to decide what may suit us.

My first saw was a B+Q as well - technically performance power rather than macallister but to all intents its the same thing with a different lable/paintjob.

and yep for dipping the toe in the water its not a bad bit of kit - the only problem is longlevity - mine did about 6 months hard service before it karked it - I got another one and it lasted 9. I then had a few years away from scrolling but came back to it recently with a scheppach - so far its about a year old and going fine. (IME the cheap saws engines dont like the dust - a particular problem if it shares a workshop with the lathe )

the thing is that spend 45 notes on a chiawanese saw once fine, do it twice and you could have had a scheppach/rexxon with the money , do it three times and an axxy would have been yours , four or five times takes you towards a hegner etc

IMO if you really just want to have a go find someone in your locality who has one and try it out - or hire one - or take an evening class, but when you decide to buy its worth spending the dosher on decent kit if you can possible afford it. Of course if money is a real problem any saw (even a fiver from a car boot) is better than none.

 

[tanyabub]

OK folks.......
I now have an Axminster AWFS18 sitting prettily in my garage )
I can do the smiley today, yesterday would have been a different matter, tempers were a little frayed.
Now I have read a lot of instruction manuals in my time but I think this one would have to take the prize for the most garbled load of taiwanglish nonsense I have ever seen.
Mostly it was no help what so ever so setting up was mostly trial and error especially when it came to blade removal/changing. Fortunately I have been doing a bit of research beforehand so I had some small grasp of what I should eventually end up with.
As you may recall yesterday was a tad warm and that wasn't helping.
We got a stand too which is OK, a good height and once modified with a hefty bag of cement on the bottom shelf it's fine.
I can't say I have produced a masterpiece since yesterday afternoon, mainly because all I had 'suitable' was a bit of hardboard.....well I had to cut something and did manage a little bunny shape )
I have since got a bit of ply from B&Q so I can practice on that and hope to produce some very pretty fire wood this afternoon.
If anything vaguely presentable manages to appear I shall let you know.
Bye for now