Mitre plane

[undergroundhunter]

Ok, so I've been looking for an infilled mitre plane for a while now and cant seem to fine one that I can afford so I have decided to change tact and have a go at making one. Problem is that I have never seen one in the flesh so have no idea of dimensions, I think I want to go with a 2" width iron that I will source from eBay other than that I have no idea of length, depth or thickness of the materials, I do however think that a 20 degree bed angle would be best unless anyone can convince me otherwise. Would be body of the plane just be made from run of the mill mild steel or is it something more special? I'm even planning on dovetailing the sole and maybe the 90 degree end.

Can anyone help with some measurements, tips or anything else that might help me?

Here is a picture of the kind of thing I'm wanting to make.

Thanks
Matt

 

[mbartlett99]

I had a look at this a while back - http://www.traditional-handplanes.com/A11.php seeme good but didn't have time at the time.

 

[knockknock]

I have no experience, but here are couple of links:

Tools for working wood Gabriel Miter Plane : https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... t%202%201/

Daed tool works making a Towell Miter: http://www.daedtoolworks.com/category/planemaking/
or http://www.daedtoolworks.com/category/p ... anemaking/

Bill Carter hand making planes: http://www.billcarterwoodworkingplanema ... uk/12.html

 

[Mr_P]

Making a ye olde mitre is a big undertaking, have you any previous experience in making planes ?

If the answer is zero the following applies:-

The bend at the back ? Not ideal for a first timer

It's huge, why not try something smaller first with no bends ?

This time last year I finally took the plunge and drew around my favourite 4" chariot and made a start in 5mm mild steeel, wow what a mistake that was bloomin hard work. Plan B bought some 4mm mild steel, still hard work but doable. Was about to start cutting the dovetails at the bottom of the sides and decided time for plan C

Actually it might me plan A, think I said I would make one before the chariot.
making-an-infill-plane-copying-the-master-lots-of-pics-t25988.html

Have you seen my sticky thread at the top of hand tools ?
ukw-best-home-made-tools-t89284.html

Its needs updating but lots of other things have got in the way, so the sticky is out of date and my plane is still in the flat metal stage.

I do have mitre plane I could measure for you if you decide to jump in at the deep end.
Richard T made it look easy in this thread.
box-mitre-t76450.html

 

[undergroundhunter]

Making a ye olde mitre is a big undertaking, have you any previous experience in making planes ?

If the answer is zero the following applies:-

The bend at the back ? Not ideal for a first timer

It's huge, why not try something smaller first with no bends ?

This time last year I finally took the plunge and drew around my favourite 4" chariot and made a start in 5mm mild steeel, wow what a mistake that was bloomin hard work. Plan B bought some 4mm mild steel, still hard work but doable. Was about to start cutting the dovetails at the bottom of the sides and decided time for plan C

Actually it might me plan A, think I said I would make one before the chariot.
making-an-infill-plane-copying-the-master-lots-of-pics-t25988.html

Have you seen my sticky thread at the top of hand tools ?
ukw-best-home-made-tools-t89284.html

Its needs updating but lots of other things have got in the way, so the sticky is out of date and my plane is still in the flat metal stage.

I do have mitre plane I could measure for you if you dicide to jump in at the deep end.
Richard T made it look easy in this thread.
box-mitre-t76450.html

Thanks for all the replies so far there is some good info on them links.

Nope never made a plane before (I have made parts for planes). I have seen the sticky but I forgot about it tbh. What exactly about the design would be hard other than the bend at the back? If I follow the late great RichardT's method then I'm pretty confidant I could do it (maybe not as perfectly as he did). Would you mind taking some measurements (with photos if possible)?

I'm thinking worst case if I stuff up the back bend I could turn it into a smoother maybe?????
Is mild steel the traditional choice for the sides and sole, I've read somewhere about using o1 but I think that might be overkill and I think for my first one brass would be a bit spendy if I stuff it up.

Matt

 

[Mr_P]

Mild steel is perfect for starters, Richard T was just moving into 01 tool steel after mastering mild steel first.

Bending and peining/peening terrify me. Cutting the shapes isn't a great skill, its so slow to work and as long as you keep checking you won't make a mistake. I invested a lot of time into the sides of my 4mm and 5 mm chariot sides and thats why I chickened out long before the peining stage. Likewise with the long piece of the mitre plane thats a lot of work and then you bend eeek and then you pein eeek.

Plus you can buy a very cheap square foot of mild steel for a tenner ish, you could buy a long thin oblong to speed things up dramatically but I'd be worried about what merthod was used to cut the shape. When I cut my chariot sides I made sure all the dovetail parts were well inside the square so less likely to be hardened by the cutting process used. Seem to recall Mr Holtey cuts all his parts first and then sends them away for heat treatment/normalisation before peining. As mentioned I've never peined but I did notice when cutting that they did get bloomin hot at times during the hacksaw stage, not sure if was enough to alter the temper though but I slowed things down just to be sure. Maybe i'm just being Mr Paranoid and making an issue of something that isn't.

Will do you a drawing of my mitre with measurements later*. Plenty of pictures on the above site its a opy of the Gabriel maybe even a genuine Gabriel but its been refilled by an amateur so no help on angles and no makers marks.

* Edit oops not where I thought it was, not a plane I have much use for. Tempted to sell it but it now shares an iron with a huge chariot I bought very cheapily. I tend to . about with small stuff mainly hence my love of my 4" chariot and my desire to replicate it since its getting a bit old and worn.

 

[rxh]

I would recommend making a smaller and simpler plane before progressing to a large mitre plane. Also, I suggest trying dovetailed joints on some metal offcuts before even starting a plane. The peining process is not difficult but it takes a bit of practice to do well. A medium sized metalwork vice fixed to a stout bench will be required. Careful marking out is needed (just like for woodwork). What metalwork tools and facilities do you have?

Bright mild steel is a good material to start with – it is cheap, easy to work and it will make a very satisfactory plane. It will not be hardened by heat caused by sawing. I have found MACC Models and Metal Supermarkets to be good suppliers. MACC are very easy to order from on line.
https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal.html
http://metalsupermarkets.co.uk/

 

[undergroundhunter]

I would recommend making a smaller and simpler plane before progressing to a large mitre plane. Also, I suggest trying dovetailed joints on some metal offcuts before even starting a plane. The peining process is not difficult but it takes a bit of practice to do well. A medium sized metalwork vice fixed to a stout bench will be required. Careful marking out is needed (just like for woodwork). What metalwork tools and facilities do you have?

Bright mild steel is a good material to start with – it is cheap, easy to work and it will make a very satisfactory plane. It will not be hardened by heat caused by sawing. I have found MACC Models and Metal Supermarkets to be good suppliers. MACC are very easy to order from on line.
https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal.html
http://metalsupermarkets.co.uk/

What kind of smaller planes would you suggest? I plan on doing plenty of dovetail practice before committing. I have a very stout bench I made from 70mm angle iron welded into frames then welded together, its just under a meter long and weighs way more then my 6ft woodworking bench. I am missing a vice at the moment but I've seen a Record No3 locally if I can get it for the right price. As far a tools go I've got the usual selection of files and hacksaws, I have a few smaller cold chisels, bench grinder, 115mm grinder, access to a mig (and the ability to weld) and I have a bench drill. I dont mind investing in tools as long as they will be used again.

Matt

 

[Mr_P]

As mentioned no real need for photographs, plenty on Joel's tools for working wood site

Not much to add to Joel's site really, hopefully of use to someone.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... 0C.%201790

Joel's marked Gabriel Mitre
It's 10 3/16" long overall (at the sole), 1 3/4" high, and 2 5/8" wide
The sole is made from blister steel and is rather thick, about 1/4" the sides are bent from much thinner, about 5/32" wrought iron.

My unmarked G.Mitre ( possible copy)
9 7/8" long at sole, 1 7/8" high and 2 1/2" wide
Sole and sides same thickness as Joel's, wow its a thick sole. No idea about blister/ wrought iron.

Coinage added to assist in printing to scale if desired.

I included the sole of my Huge Chariot/mitre as its also very similar in dimension (pictures on link below).
7 7/16" x 2 3/8"
post983912.html#p983912

Any questions, please ask.

 

[D_W]

I would suggest a plane like this to start. If you need measurements, let me know.

Raney Nelson suggested this type years ago when I made my first infill, and I made it out of 3/16ths O1 for the bottom and 1/8ths for the sides, with a cocobolo infill (anything dry is fine). I didn't overstuff mine like this.

I'm in a state of mild shock that this has become a $2185 plane to order (though Ron Brese is a nice guy, I guess he's gotten notoriety to move prices up) , and that price without dovetails.

I used O1 because it comb cuts well, which makes life a little easier with a hacksaw, file and cold chisel, and it also laps reasonably well (though not as easily as cast). I fancied myself making a bunch of large infill planes until I learned to use the double iron and then realized that huge heavy planes are like playing (as warren mickley said) ping pong with a cast iron frying pan.

 

[rxh]

I would suggest starting with a small bevel-down plane, with steel sole and sides but no very tight mouth, U-bend or steel front plate to worry about. It sounds like you are experienced at metalwork and have got most of the tools you will need – a round nosed punch is good for peining and a small anvil can be useful. Scrapers can be ground from old files. I remove most of the dovetail waste by making a series of diagonal cuts then finish with files.

 

[Mr_P]

D_W,

Sorry no picture or number attached, I guess you mean the Ron Brese 650-55J
http://www.breseplane.com/650-55J.html

Which is very similar to the one I suggested in my first post
making-an-infill-plane-copying-the-master-lots-of-pics-t25988.html

and on Karl Holtey's site you can see the stunning dovetails.
http://www.holteyplanes.com/infill-planes-No10.html
http://www.holteyplanes.com/infill-planes-11SA.html

Matt,
Another good resource is Peter McBride's site

http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking/

Good Luck with whatever you decide to make,
Carl

 

[undergroundhunter]

Thanks guys, whatever I decide to make watch out for a build thread.

Matt

 

[D_W]

D_W,

Sorry no picture or number attached, I guess you mean the Ron Brese 650-55J
http://www.breseplane.com/650-55J.html

Which is very similar to the one I suggested in my first post
making-an-infill-plane-copying-the-master-lots-of-pics-t25988.html

and on Karl Holtey's site you can see the stunning dovetails.
http://www.holteyplanes.com/infill-planes-No10.html
http://www.holteyplanes.com/infill-planes-11SA.html

Matt,
Another good resource is Peter McBride's site

http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking/

Good Luck with whatever you decide to make,
Carl

Yes, apologies for missing that suggestion. It is that exact type that is a good start because you get to do all of the important part (dovetailing, etc) and less of the aesthetic stuff that is lower risk but that takes a long time. That can be done on a larger plane once the basics are mastered.

Large planes are quite pricey to make unless one has good wood laying around, and good usable stock or a supply of mild steel that's not perfect and a mill to make it so.

 

[Mr_P]

What size did you make yours and do you ever use it ?

I know you have fallen out of love with infills but since block/ chariot / mitre planes are traditionally single irons maybe you rate it ?

 

[Bedrock]

Matt

As an intro, rather than go the whole hog with dovetailing, have you looked at the Bristol Tools bronze castings, which I think are still available, from bare casting, through to part machined, and sweated on steel soles?
And with or without Norris type adjusters, if that's what take your fancy.
Their website is not very forthcoming, but other subscribers have fund them helpful, so a phone call might give you the basic info as to what's available.

I bought one of their mitre plane kits, probably 15 odd years ago, and found it pretty good.

Mike